PLDT modem in router mode + CDRKing LP-8186

[baktol]

This is the current setup that I have:

Zyxel P660 (router mode, DHCP ON) <-- LP-8186 (WAN port, Bridge mode DHCP disabled) <--- wired + wireless clients

With the above setup, both wired and wireless clients can connect to the Internet no problem.  However, I noticed that I lost port forwarding for uTorrent.

How do I cascade these two routers?  I've already configured my PLDT modem as router and I can't go back to bridge mode because I never took note of the default bridge mode settings and I already flashed the modem with a new firmware effectively wiping out the default firmware of PLDT (hard reset won't bring back PLDT's default settings).  I would also like to use the DHCP server, NAT and Firewall of the LP-8186.

If anyone can point me to an easy to understand tutorial I would be most grateful.

[bravoexo]

don't you just open them up on the P660?  the P660 is your gateway, right?

[baktol]

Yeah I did open the ports up (and yes, P660 is the gateway).  However, AFAIK (please correct me if I'm wrong) when forwarding a port, you also need to specify the IP address of the client whose port will be forwarded.  So what I did before I had the wifi was I checked the list of connected DHCP clients and reserved the IP addresses so that their particular ports in uTorrent will be forwarded.

Although the P660's DHCP server is able to assign IP addresses like it should, somehow it isn't able to list up the connected clients, hence, I couldn't reserve the port and IP addresses.  I was hoping by cascading the routers I could implement port forwarding properly per reserved IP address.  I haven't tested yet if the router actually does "see" the MAC address of clients eventhough it couldn't list them up.

Please correct me if I misunderstood the concept.  Can I open a port regardless of client IP address?

[calvin]

Make sure P660 is connected to the LAN ports of the LP-8186 and not its WAN port.

[motion55]

The normal settings for the P660

Mode: Bridging
Encapsulation: 1483
Mux: LLC
VPI: 0
VCI: 100 (metro manila) or 35 (provincial)
DHCP server: disabled

Connect the dsl modem to the WAN port of the CDR-King router. Select DHCP for WAN

[motion55]

BTW, PLDT myDSL bundle plan 1299 (512kbps) was recently installed. I received a P660R-D1 with the crippled firmware. How do you flash it with the non-crippled version?

I am not using right now. I prefer to use my old Bayantel DSL305EU ADSL modem but I want to try it on my other DSL line (Globe plan 995 data only).

[xenxor]

This is the current setup that I have:

Zyxel P660 (router mode, DHCP ON) <-- LP-8186 (WAN port, Bridge mode DHCP disabled) <--- wired + wireless clients

With the above setup, both wired and wireless clients can connect to the Internet no problem.  However, I noticed that I lost port forwarding for uTorrent.

How do I cascade these two routers?  I've already configured my PLDT modem as router.  I would also like to use the DHCP server, NAT and Firewall of the LP-8186.

If anyone can point me to an easy to understand tutorial I would be most grateful.

We have the same combo: Zyxel P660 + LP8186 running the network setup you want so i guess i can probably help you. (we just differ in the P660's firmware -- i still have PLDT's version.).

Physical Setup: P660 LAN port connected to LP8186 WAN port (so we freed up an LP8186 LAN port as a bonus)

Router(s) Setup: P660 is in router mode. LP8186 is also in router or "gateway" mode.

Network Setup: Because we have both devices in router mode, we must have two subnets.

The first subnet is used exclusively by our two routers where the P660's LAN port can talk directly with the LP8186's WAN port. In this subnet, i used the IP address range from 192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0
LAN IP setup of P660 has static IP address 192.168.1.1 netmask 255.255.255.0
WAN IP setup of LP8186 has a static IP address 192.168.1.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 with a default gateway pointing to 192.168.1.1 (the P660)

The second subnet is for our LP8186 to communicate directly with our wired and wireless computers and to handout DHCP addresses.
In this subnet, i used the IP address range 192.168.2.0/255.255.255.0
LAN Setup of LP8186 has IP address 192.168.2.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 where the default gateway is left as 0.0.0.0

To activate LP8186's DHCP features, set the DHCP mode to "server" and punch in the DHCP client range IP addresses like 192.168.2.100 - 192.168.2.200 (taken from the second subnet). (You can then turn off DHCP on the P660 'cause it will be useless)

LP8186's NAT and firewall is already active when it's in router/gateway mode.

Now to make port forwarding work across your two routers and allow you to control the port forwarding mapping on the LP8186, you must do the following:
On the P660, you must enable NAT (of course) and set 192.168.1.2 (the LP8186 WAN IP address) as the "default server" for Port Forwarding.
On the LP8186, enable IP Port Forwarding feature and define your torrent ports there.

hth!

[motion55]

Double NATing or cascading two routers is not good practice. The weaker of the two routers (usually the ADSL modem) could limit your torrent speed. You might experience slow browsing while downloading torrents.

[calvin]

Double NATing or cascading two routers is not good practice. The weaker of the two routers (usually the ADSL modem) could limit your torrent speed. You might experience slow browsing while downloading torrents.

+1

cascading will only give the desired performance when used with high end routers...

[xenxor]

given that we only have the  P660 + LP8186 combo to work with, we have no choice but to cascade.
sa cdrking dati, meron silang device na parang LP8186 but with a real ADSL+ logic on the WAN port.  that would have been the all-in-one ADSL+Wired+Wireless router device setup. pero di na available eh.

as for double-nat, it theoretically can degrade performance on high-traffic networks with really large pipes. so to avoid it, you can make the P660 work in bridge mode but that ends my contribution to this thread as i don't have any plans to experiment with it. besides, this particular home network of mine is just a home network. and it's just sitting on a 1.2Mbps pipe. yakang-yaka ng setup. also i like hassle-free remote admin access on that P660 so it has to be in router mode. if it's in bridge mode, you'd know the hassle of accessing its admin panel which is not worth it.

[motion55]

If you mean by "remote admin access" as access from the WAN side, I don't understand why you would need that.

However, if you need to access the modem from the LAN side even after attaching the external router, there are easy ways to do it. I have been able to do it with my modem even if it is in bridged mode. Set the modem's IP address that is accessible from the router.

 

[xenxor]

right, LAN-side remote access.
you have to assign your computer an IP from the same range your P660 sits on and be on the same LAN segment (like moving it too from the LP8186's WAN port to one of the LAN ports OR plug it directly on your computer's LAN port) . in fact you have to do that first to shift the  P660 into router mode.  but my point was, why shift back to bridge mode in the first place when you already went thru the trouble of going router mode? So that you can keep doing the same trick again in bridged mode to troubleshoot it? and to eliminate the theoretical double-nat performance loss on a home network? i guess to each his own.

[xenxor]

here's the all-in-one cdrking device. they still advertise it but there are no stocks where i visit them.

http://www.cdrking.com/local/products/index.php?action=submnu&temp=2&typeno=5398859-567292-612195429-6878404&prod=Wireless&prodcode=9637714-338208-022874809-5384442

[baktol]

@motion55

Thanks for the default settings for bridge mode.  I'll keep it as reference should I decide to switch back to bridge mode.  Frankly, I'm really hesitant to switch my modem back to bridge mode because I used to experience a lot of disconnections before I switched to router mode.  I'm not exactly sure why switching to router mode made a difference though.  Or it could also be because I upgraded the modem firmware.

And BTW, this option

Encapsulation: 1483

or RFC1483 seems to be missing from the list of options.

I don't exactly know what the "crippled" F/W looks like but I got my new firmware from Zyxel's website.  You flash it via the admin page of the modem.

@xenxor

Thanks!  Actually, I was able to find a Linksys tutorial earlier for router cascading.  Same concept as what you posted.

So far, I don't see any changes in torrent DL speed after the double-NAT.

Got some questions: 

1.  Can you see your list of DHCP clients from your P660?  Sa kin kasi nagre-reset ang DSL connection when I try to view my DHCP clients.  I was expecting I'd see the LP-8186 on that list.  I even used MAC cloning but no dice.  I know DHCP is already useless now that the LP8186 is on static IP but still I'm wondering why.  Even with the P660 in bridge mode, I still can't view the list of clients.

2.  Does the LP-8186 support reservation of IP addresses based on MAC?

[xenxor]

Clicking on the Network --> LAN --> Client List tab?  Ok naman ang DSL connection ko when i click on it. (my firmware version is 3.40 PLDT) But i think on my setup, i should not expect to see a list of DHCP clients on the P660 since my LP8186 is the one handling DHCP and that's on the second LAN subnet/segment.

As for LP8186's support for reserved IP based on MAC, mukhang malabo. sobrang bare ng DHCP server configuration ng LP8186 (my firmware version is 1.4b)

[baktol]

As for LP8186's support for reserved IP based on MAC, mukhang malabo. sobrang bare ng DHCP server configuration ng LP8186 (my firmware version is 1.4b)

Too much to ask for an el-cheapo AP I guess, hehe.  F/W version of mine is 1.5a, IIRC.

[dta]

Double NATing or cascading two routers is not good practice. The weaker of the two routers (usually the ADSL modem) could limit your torrent speed. You might experience slow browsing while downloading torrents.

+1

cascading will only give the desired performance when used with high end routers...

Thanks for those info.  Where can I read more information about when double-NAT (cascading) can be used and when it probably shouldn't be used?



I've tried "cascading" (I didn't even know that term except when I read the above thread) 2 routers to test that the router works.

(I'm using Asus WL500gP which is connected to PLDT DSL. Someone brought me his Netgear WGR614 wifi router for testing. I decided to connect the Netgear WGR614 to my Asus WL500gP to test if it works. The Netgear WGR614 auto-configured itself to 10.0.0.1 [was previously 192.168.1.1; the Asus WL500gP was also previously 192.168.1.1])  I've noticed that the "cascading" worked and there doesn't seem to be any problems. Although I didn't test it for long, I just checked that it worked.

I noticed that I could still open the Asus router's config interface by using 192.168.1.1 and the Netgear's config interface using 10.0.0.1   (I'm using a desktop PC connected to the Netgear, while I was testing it out).

I didn't try if downloading will be slower (I tested Speedtest.net from the 2nd/cascaded Netgear router and the speedtest results appear to be practically the same as if I had connected directly to the main/Asus router -- all my tests are "wired" since I didn't have a laptop that time for testing).

[josekym]

IMO, cascading desktop routers should be fine if your network does not consume bandwidth which exceeds the limits on the ports (WAN & LAN).  Most routers only have 10Mbps limit for their WAN port, so this could become a bottleneck if one is accessing data from the other side of the cascade.

Also, there is a certain specification for "LAN to WAN routing speed" (different on each router), which should be taken into consideration as it also affects performance, especially when transmitting large files from LAN to WAN or vice-versa.

I myself have a cascaded network at home, and the reason why I used this setup is security:  I don't want the PCs behind the 2nd router to be accessed by the PCs connected to the 1st router.  Thus the double-NAT works for me.