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Technical Discussions => Hardware => Topic started by: joan2 on May 26, 2003, 09:46:51 AM

Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 26, 2003, 09:46:51 AM
q : why dual power supply?

a : generic power supplies are those that came bundled with the casing and as such are

    made of cheap parts and or construction quality is of the so so variety.

    as such they seem to fail to deliver power stated on their labels. this is specially

    obvious when used in amd athlons and geforce4 video card combinations. i have seen

    a 300 watt psu with a filter choke on the 3.3volt rail burned out and another not only

    burned out but also desoldered itself out of the circuit board, while in another the

    5 volts rectifiers shorted out. the power supply simply can not hack it. this is not to

    say that generic power supplies are bad, it is just a matter of derating the psu to be

    able to use them safely and thus avoid psu failures. having said those, to answer the

    question, dual psu is intended as a cheaper alternative to buying an enermax or a hec

    psu which costs 5 to 8 times that of a generic psu.



q : i used two 300 watts atx psu, so now i have 600watt psu?

a : no, this is not about simple addition, we must remember that we don't know the

    true capability of the psu in the first place, but  the saying "two heads are better

    than one", is applicable here.



q : i used a 300 watt psu for my mobo and 200 watts for my peripherals, why is my system

    still unstable?

a : if you are using athlons and geforce4ti video cards and plenty of pci cards, then a generic

    psu even at 300 watts rated is not enough. i have seen many 300watt psu wherein construction

    is very simmilar to a 145watt psu made by astech. 300watt psu such as "lanlon" is a good

    example of a capable 300watt psu. so if you are now using a 300 watt psu and can use your pc

    but with minor stability issues or if you have many add-ons like fans, two or more harddisks,

    then a 2nd psu can help your pc system.  



q : is it safe to use dual power supply, will my mobo burn is case something goes wrong?

a : dual psu when implented correctly is not less safe than using a single power supply.

    the atx design specs has enough safeguards and is supposed to shut down your psu in case of

    overvoltage/overcurrent conditions occuring at the output and undervoltge in the input, some

    psu's even went to the extent of incorporting an overtempterature cut off sensor to shut down

    your system in the event of overheating of the psu. so which psu have these features? it is hard

    tell unless we can open up the psu and look, or test them...more often than not, it is the psu,

    not the motherboard that gets fried.



q : how do i implement dual psu for my pc?

a : there are many ways to implement a dual power supply arrangement for your pc.

    you can 'google' for dual psu and the web offers many choises. i have enumerted some which i

    have tried on my own:

    1. two atx psu's with one acting as master and the second one slave, both psu's

       are not altered in any way. to power on the two units simultaneously, an extender

       device is used, the master's 20 pin header connects to the mobo in the ussual manner

       while a 4pin molex to 20pin female header is used to connect to the slave psu, the idea

       is to short the pin14,(PS_ON) to ground, a relay can be used for this purpose, but a

       simpler way is to use an npn transistor switch in leiu of the relay.

    2. an atx/at psu combo with the atx supplying the mobo and the at psu supplying the

       peripherals like hardisks, optical drives, flopies, fans, etc...



q : what is a cd-rom psu?

a : an atx or an at psu is modified to fit inside a cd rom casing, the object is to be able to

    fix the 2nd psu inside the pc casing, on the 5.25 drive bay, or even the 3.5 inch drive bay.



q : what type of power supply to use for a cd rom psu?

a : although an atx psu is possible to use for a cd rom psu, i preffer the at type since we only

    need the 5 and 12 volts rail for peripherals, and a 200watt at psu is sufficient in most cases.



q : how does your cd-rom psu operate?

a : since the cd rom psu is tapped into the main atx psu, power is applied to the cd rom psu once

    you plug in your pc to the wall, immdiately a standby 5 or 12 volt is available regardless of

    your pc being up or not, this is usefull if you want your fans running even after you power

    down your pc, a relay is used to turn on the 5 and 12 volt rails to sychronize them with the

    coresponding rails on the main atx psu.



q : how do you attach the cd rom psu to your main atx psu?

a : there are two connections, one is a 220volt power tapped into the atx 220volt receptacle inside

    the main atx psu, and the other is a 4pin molex to turn on the 5/12volts rails thru a relay.



q : how about heat, does this cd rom psu add heat inside the casing:

a : to get an idea of the heat that can be produced by the cd rom psu, let us consider the following

    loads, cd rom at 25watts, cd writer at 25 watts, two hardisks at 22 watts, ten case fans at 2 watts

    each for a total 104 watts, assuming an efficiency of 70%, then 44 watts is lost to the cd rom psu

    and this is in the form of heat. considering that an average cdrom casing has a surface area

    of about 120 square inches, then assuming perfect heat transfer from psu to  cd rom casing,

    then we are talking 0.37 watts per square inch, not very significant? consider further that

    with the exception of the fans, the rating for the harddisks and cdrom/cdrw are peak values,

    they will be lower at idle so expect the 0.37 figure to be lower most of the time.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: glezah on May 26, 2003, 10:06:14 AM
can i only use a psu that is fitted to a cdrom bay? i mean single psu lang to ha. would it be sufficient for my athlon rig?



--

hdd.

nforce2 with all the bells and whistles.

combo dvd-cdrw

--
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: slide on May 26, 2003, 10:13:58 AM
i use my rig often for audio recording.  will there be a chance that the dual cpus create a ground loop hence cause hum in my audio?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 26, 2003, 10:24:41 AM
slide,

grounding the psu case and the cdrom psu casing to your pc casing helps a lot. since you are not getting speaker power from your pc and i presume you don't have low-level input devices such as microphones and vynil disk pickups connected directly to your pc...the chances for a ground loop imho is nil...the only thing i can think of that may pose a problem is if you use acrylic casing...but no there are no high current devides with analog signals that may induce ground loop...i am also into construction of high power amps for audio and i am familiar with ground loop problems, but this is for another site, another thread...



glezah,

that is possible, i have one prototype in my shop right now, to bad i do not have digicam for pictures...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Klay on May 26, 2003, 12:05:33 PM
OT: hey hardware team! anyone pick this up? good content here...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 26, 2003, 05:00:54 PM
keep your questions coming and i will try to find answers...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: geode on May 26, 2003, 06:26:19 PM
Quote
... a standby 5 or 12 volt is available regardless of your pc being up or not, this is usefull if you want your fans running even after you power down your pc ...


this is very interesting specially for those concerned with their temps.  even when the pc's off it's still cooling down.  would it be advisable to connect the hsf to this psu so that even if the pc's turned off the cpu's still being cooled down.  in my opinion that's better than ung biglang mawawala ung cooling ng hsf in the usual setup.



[/quote]
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: lahar on May 26, 2003, 06:33:15 PM
Quote
a standby 5 or 12 volt is available regardless of your pc being up or not, this is usefull if you want your fans running even after you power down your pc




i think this is also possible via the Wake on LAN feature of the mobo.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: slide on May 26, 2003, 10:01:01 PM
ala turbo timer?  he he



joan2

thanks!  i use a low-z preamp for my mic.



ot:  since you're also into audio,  is there a chance you can rig me a low power class A zen amp?  tube would be preferred but a solid state unit would be fine
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 27, 2003, 07:41:34 AM
lahar,

yes it is possible to use the wake on lan feature although it uses the 5volts standby, there is such a device on the web to run your hsf fans even after your have shut down your system...

slide,

i am familiar with nelson pass' zen amps, i have plans for the aleph5 classA amp....i am a big fan of marshall leach of georgia tech, i built several of his low tim double barreled amps,around 30 units, rated at 250 watts way back late 80's to early 90's, that was before i went overseas as an OFW...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: unico diablo on May 27, 2003, 07:49:08 AM
Sir Joan2 so far so good on your modified psu. Question though:



I have AXP 1800+ DLT3C overlocked to 2.4 Ghz running on 1.70 vcore. According to my mobo's manual, i should be able to select up to 1.80 vcore. But i'm only seeing till 1.70. There's also an overvolt jumper that i can enable. Tried using this feature but Bios is saying i'm still limited to 1.70 max vcore. Is it my psu that's hindering me from getting a higher vcore option?



Also, i checked on the actual vcore output as read by Motherboard Monitor and BIOS. It says my vcore is only 1.60. Is this a result of my psu?



My 3.3 volts rail also says i only have 3.18. Is this within a tolerable level? Hope to learn from your expertise again.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 27, 2003, 07:53:03 AM
those of you contemplating on running a dual psu, here's a tip to find out if your current 300 watt psu can pass for a dual psu set-up:

1. connect psu to mobo with the all the pci and agp video cards and memory modules installed.

2. boot your system, if successful, go into bios and see if you can work on it, then power down.

3. connect a floppy drive and a hardisk, then reboot, if you can finish scandisk routine then your psu if a good candidate for dual psu....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 27, 2003, 08:10:44 AM
unico diablo,

you are still within spec on your 3.3volts, lower limit is 3.13, upper limit is 3.46, motherboards are not intended to be overclocked, that's what the mobo manufacturer's officially say, but they add features that helps overclocking because there is a large segment of computer enthusiasts out there who wants to get the "biggest bang for the buck". i am not familiar with your mobo, if you are not having stability issues, then your

psu is still ok...there are instances wherein you have to trick your bios to seeing a 1.7 vcore with an actual vore of 1.8...i suggest you google this to find out more..with abit boards this is a piece of cake....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ridleyscotch on May 27, 2003, 08:26:29 AM
what about the avr? do u need to replace it if u are going to do a 2 psu setup?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 27, 2003, 08:48:01 AM
not really, i never used those avr's i don't see a need for it. psu's and monitors operate over a wide range of input ac voltages...what i recommend is the use of line tamers, or line conditioners, to remove transients, spikes and other line garbage, both from within and without of your rig...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: nhald on May 27, 2003, 09:15:54 AM
joan2, I sent PM. hope you could answer soon. Tnx.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: crash_n_burn on May 28, 2003, 01:49:39 AM
im currently using an enermax 300watts psu. im using to power 4 hds, 2 fans, gf4mx440 wit crystal orb fan, cdrom, cdwriter, hd cooler with 3 small fans, hd rack with 2 small fans, pinnacle dv500 video editing card, raid controller, floppy drive and sb live value.im planning on adding more fans , a cathode light and probably another HD. will ur cdrom psu power them up? is my psu stable for a 2nd psu? will my pc be stable with the 2nd psu? im using my pc for video editng and it being stable and reliable is a must. how much does the cdrom psu cost? where can i purchase it if ever? thanks
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 28, 2003, 07:52:58 AM
crash_n_burn,

your system can definitely benefit from the 2nd psu, if you have a spare 5.25 drive bay then you can install one. you can divert some of your load such as floppy,cdroms, cdrw, hardisks and fans to you 2nd psu unit.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: lahar on May 28, 2003, 09:00:20 AM
OT:



crash_n_burn,



ouch, di pas ba sumasakit tenga mo sa ingay ng mga fans?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 28, 2003, 12:39:33 PM
i have ten fans inside my casing...tolerable naman yung noise....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dta on May 28, 2003, 05:02:42 PM
Do you have any suggested line conditioners -- I suppose these also have wattage ratings or the like?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: [JaNuS] on May 28, 2003, 06:44:07 PM
can you post pics and illustrations on how to do these... wala akong alam sa electronics eh...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on May 28, 2003, 11:31:39 PM
how bout this: dati 2 PSU setup ko, 1 350W Dynamo sa mobo and the rest (drives, fans, etc) powered na ng Delta 180W PSU. I've noticed lang na ang +5v rail ko ay naglalaro sa 4.55v ~ 4.78v w/ random re-boots. I've decided to remove the 180W PSU and back sa 1 PSU setup (handled by the 350W Dynamo), then suddendly bet. 4.75v ~ 4.91v na +5v ko, wala na rin random re-boots, though, I was forced to set my CPU clock to 2.2GHz @ 1.5v (180x10) kasi, kahit anong gawin ko, di mahandle nung PSU ko ang 2GHz+ w/ GF4 Ti4200 64MB.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 29, 2003, 10:10:33 AM
dta,

sola basic, topaz, are brand names of line conditioners i don't know if locally available, we used to order our's from sunnyvale, calif...way back when i was still working for amd phils., as an electronics workshop supervisor....

 

JaNuS,

kung wala kang alam sa electronics, then i suggest that you don't attemp to do this, because the voltages involved can be lethal and you might put yourself at risk,



CoreXP,

Dynamo 350W psu is not an overclocking psu from what you have just mentioned, but with voltage tweaking the 5volt rail to say 5.25v maybe you can overclock, i said maybe, i have yet to see the inside of the dynamo psu...those out there with deffective dynamo 350w psu may loan me one so i can have a look see the insides...

it is hard for me to comment on your dual psu setup since i do not know how you actually implemented it, your main atx psu connected to the mobo is the one being monitored, so i can not see how the second psu affected the readings , unless at some point your 5volt rail from the maint atx connected with the 5volt rail of the delta 180watt psu, in this case it is possible to get lower reading....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: magistrate on May 29, 2003, 11:28:09 AM
<a bit OT>

sir tony,

have you ever opened a I-cute psu? what was your impression about its quality?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Takao on May 29, 2003, 11:36:44 AM
@joan2



Sir, magpapa-modz ako sa yo ng PSU to CDROM by next month(may xtra PSU ako at sirang cdrom), pano kaya cooler nun at pwede ba sya sabay mag-ON ng main PSU, pag-ON ng main power switch?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 29, 2003, 01:11:51 PM
magistrate,

yes i have seen an icute, 350w and a 300watt, layout is same as that of a hec350w but the components used are obviously inferior, lightweight...i had this icute350w psu that can not boot an athlon700 slot a on an aopen ak72 mobo...whereas a forepoint psu of same wattage booted the setup succesfully...



takao,

the way the 2nd psu operates is to integrate with the main psu, meaning only one power cable is connected to the wall, you turn on your system just as before, but then you have the option to have hsf fans running even before you on your rig, this means cooling still remains even after you ahve powered down your cpu....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: [JaNuS] on May 29, 2003, 03:06:20 PM
puwede bang magpagawa ng 2nd psu?yung cdrom mod.how much at saan ang location?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 29, 2003, 05:12:26 PM
[JanuS] you can call me at 6438957 for more info...thanks
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on May 30, 2003, 11:38:24 AM
joan2: those readings were taken from the (Dynamo350) PSU connected on the mobo.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: nhald on May 30, 2003, 11:56:53 AM
joan2,



wala pa po ba yung hinihingi kong fax? nangangati na kasi kamay ko para gawin yun, e. hehehe.



question lang po ulit. yun po bang cdrom psu nyo e direct conversion lang from regular psu meaning wala ng modifications sa laman ng regular psu? inilipat lang sya ng ibang cdrom case. sinukat ko kasi yung laman ng isang psu ko, kasya naman sa cdrom case except of course the fan. =)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on May 30, 2003, 04:17:37 PM
nhald,

you shall have your fax by monday, yung at psu inililipat lang sa cd rom casing, meaning you have to chop off the heatsink to fit....



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Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: nhald on June 02, 2003, 10:37:49 AM
tnx! ma-try ko na rin!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 02, 2003, 05:35:53 PM
nhald,

good luck, please report the result here, thanks...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: [JaNuS] on June 02, 2003, 08:43:54 PM
send me your cell phone number joan2... +639178489487
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: barurutor on June 02, 2003, 09:54:49 PM
um, pwede kayong mag private-messaging para di masyadong mapuno yung thread ng off-topic messages.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 03, 2003, 05:24:19 PM
10-4 mr barurator...thanks
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dta on June 12, 2003, 09:16:59 PM
pardon my curiosity. Thread title is "tony's dual power supply f.a.q's" -- are you "tony"?



BTW, how would you rate a PSU that has these ratings (on the PSU label):

+5v: 30A

+12v: 12A

-5v: 0.5A

-12V: 0.8A

+3.3v: 14A

+5VSB: 1A



+5 & +3.3 total output 160w

output 300watt max



Would it run an Athlon XP 2400+ TBred-B? What if we add 256MB DDR333, GF4 Ti4200, CDRW drive, DVD-ROM drive and mobo has built-in sound chipset/LAN/Firewire.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 13, 2003, 09:05:20 AM
dta,

yes, i am tony, do not ask me how i get the name joan2, it is very personal.....

the ratings you posted are for a typical atx12 spec for a 300watt psu, whether the psu can deliver or not is another thing, as i have said many times, labeling is easy, delivering is the question....

as fas as psu's are concerned, i have verified that a "Pentium IV" from the tornado casing can power up a geforce4ti video card/athlonxp2000+ combo in a dual psu setup....a 300 watt psu from "logic" failed...so to answer your question, yes it can run your load, but if you add more pheriperals, then a second psu is indicated.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dta on June 13, 2003, 09:37:02 AM
I see, thanks for your answer.



BTW, how would you know that the above "ratings" is from a typical atx12 300watt PSU -- do branded ones (eg Enermax, HEC) have a rating that's significantly different from the above "generic" PSU provided they're the same 300watts?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 13, 2003, 04:59:04 PM
you can find the atx12v specs from the web, it is in pdf format, very interesting reading.....i have the revision 1.2 of the spec not sure if i can email you, send me a pm with your email, i'll see if i can send you the file....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 13, 2003, 05:07:48 PM
q : I have an enlight 340W PSU that used to power a P4 1.6A at 2.2GHz on an Asus P4B-266C and has excellent voltages accross rails (voltages never going .01V less from spec).

Now it's powering an AXP 1700+ at 2.0GHz on an Epox 8RDA+ and using the same peripiherals (DVD, CD, 2x HDD), the 3.3V rail is running very low. Below are the average voltages as reported by MBM:

+3.3 2.47 V

+5.00 5.00 V

+12.00 12.44 V

-12.00 -12.16 V

-5.00 -5.14 V

Considering the PSU's heft, I could say it's a good unit and it used to power my old Athlon 1.0 @ 1.6GHz with the same number of peripherals and a 172W TEC. Do you think adjusting the trim pots (I opened it and fiddled it some before) would fix or would the PSU need serious modding?



a: 1. the 3.3 volt rail is still within the lower limit of 2.46volts, you can tweak the trimpot to get this higher, but doing so would raise the other rails also, just be guided by the limits of 5.25 and 12.6 for the 5/12 volt rails.

    2. your psu can benefit from a rectifier upgrade, replacing the 5 and 3.3 volts rectifiers can increase your rails by as much as 0.25volts, quite significant if i may say so....



what the above shows is that amd procs rely  more heavily on the 5 volt rail than an intel proc would.....



thanks to slide for making this thread sticky, and for your question....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: lsouljah on June 15, 2003, 03:37:11 AM
bro u powered that athlon rig with a 172wTEC??? parang nakakatakot ata un ah.  nakagamit ako ng 156wTEC pero di ko try sa HEC 350w hirap magpa RMA eh try ko nga s crappy 300w ni ayaw umikot ng todo ung fans ng radiator  heheh.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 19, 2003, 05:55:14 PM
dulber gave me two psu's for a dual psu setup, one is an elan vital 300watt, and the other an icute 300watter, what are the differences ansd simmilarities between the two?



I.  Elan Vital 300watt:

    1. uses 2 stage pfc passive ckt.

    2. uses 4amp bridge rectifier

    3. 2 x 680ufd/200 mains filter caps

    4. ic type 5volts standby ckt.

    5. big mains chopper transformer

    6. uses 12amp type chopper transistors

    7. uses heavy heatsink

II. Icute 300 watt:

    1. simple pfc passive ckt

    2. uses a 1amp bridge rectifier

    3. 2 x 330ufd/200volts mains filter caps

    4. small mains chopper transformer

    5. uses 7amps type chopper transistors

    6. lightweight heatsink

both uses 30amp 5volts rectifier and both uses synchronous type rectifier for the 3.3v rail

so which one to use on an athlon xp/ge force4 ti setup? the Elan Vital of course, incidentaly, the elan vital has a trimpot to tweak the 5volt rail if needed....the 5volt rectifier will be upgraded to 60amp type as sson as the material gets in....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: yaj555 on June 21, 2003, 10:57:27 PM
my 3.3v thingy is at 3.14 ryt now...



rig specs



axp 1700+ @ 2200+ 1.7 vcore, 2.8v agp

CAK488t

MSI kt3v

256 DDR333

1 cdrom, 1 writer (unplugged for now)

Gainward ti4800SE

CMI 8378

300 watts dynamo twin fan PSU

3 80 mm .20 amp fans
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: yaj555 on June 21, 2003, 11:07:58 PM
im planning on getting an 8rda+ rev 2 this month, and im just making sure that my PSU is up to it :|
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 22, 2003, 08:31:53 AM
your 3.3volt rail is still within spec, although on the low side....dual psu?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on June 24, 2003, 10:15:31 AM
i'm using a psu that came w/ my exodus casing...the 5v rail is reported to be @ 4.84v...the rest are ok...dual psu? or psu trimming?

palomino 1800+, 8k3a,2x256  mem modules,cdrom,cdwriter,1 maxtor 7200rpm,1 fdd, cak4-88t, 2 dditinal fans..

i'm planningto add more fans and OC the processor to 166fsb...

i have two spare 300w psu (pentium4 from tornade & task from saxon)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 24, 2003, 11:14:07 AM
your psu 5v rail is still within specs, lower limit is 4.75.....but we can mod your psu...i have 5pcs 60amps rectifiers coming in maybe this week....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on June 24, 2003, 11:33:33 AM
ok...tignan ko kung kailan ang next na trip ko sa manila... =) then maybe i would let you mod any two of my psu..:)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joelreg on June 24, 2003, 07:59:44 PM
i am using an enermax 350 watter...setup=tbred 2100+, 8k3a, 1x256 mem module, 1 cdrw, 1 fdd, 1 maxtor 7200rpm, 1 maxtor 5400rpm, gf4 4200, sbLive soundcard, lan card, modem, watercooling, 2x120 mm. fans, 4x80 mm....at default setting with 1.45 vcore running prime95 overnight,  the ff. are my average voltages using MBM5: 4.97v, 12.7v, 3.3v....

but, at 187x13 (2429 Mhz) with 1.95v vcore, 2.7vdimm at turbo, and prime95 for about 6 hours, the ave. voltages are perplexing...4.62v, 13.67v(!), 3.32v.....

sir tony, am i courting trouble with my present set up? i am assuming MBM is accurate as my bios have similar readings...i am apprehensive in pushing it a little bit more. although 4.6v ave. is below desired lower limit i think it is running stable...but the 12v rail reading worries me...should i expect something blowing up? is there something wrong with my MB? can something be done?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 25, 2003, 07:14:28 AM
dr. joel,

your 5volt rail is below spec, lower limit of 4.75v, while your 12v rail is over the spec of 12.6 volts, i wonder if you got random reboots, yes you are courting trouble....these power supplies were not meant for over clocking per se,.....good feedback though!!! so others may be forewarned...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 25, 2003, 07:25:13 AM
q: would i find a prob if i mounted 2 PSU but not acting simultaneously. sort of independent from one another. separate power cords.



one Enermax 350watt PSU dedicated to my system composed of DVD-ROM, CDRW, 2pcs 80gig, 120gig SATA, P4 2.6C, ASUS P4C800 mobo, ATI 9600 pro, internal modem, 1gig PC400, 3pcs, Harddisk Cooler and Zalman CPU Cooler.



another PSU, don't know the brand but it came with those cases with a window. dedicated to 4pcs 120mm Enermax fans, 3 CCFL, 1 PCI cooler and 3 HDD cooler.



i tried to hook up everything to the 350watt PSU pero over load na talaga yun di ba. the case can accomodate another PSU kc its a full tower. yun nga lang, wala na akong vacant na 5.25 bay and the case doesn't have a 3.5 bay. so i can't make use of switches. parang mas convenient kung papatayin ko na lang ang power ng isang PSU and leave the other running.



what problems would i encounter with this idea? i was planning to convert the second PSU into a tester PSU type, removing other cords sch as those going to the CPU to reduce the wire. nwei, tambak lang naman yung PSU ngayon sa stock room e.



a: yes you can with that setup, but if you use it for say, another hardisk and or cdrom, then you can not, the psu must come on simultaniously, why? because     as you power on your psu,post routine is done thru your bios to detect all your hardware and see if they are there as previuosly set up or has any changes to your hardware occured sine the last time you booted up. now if you on your main power supply then on the second one moments later, then how do you suppose your bios can detect the change? so your second psu must come on at the same time as the main one...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ferdz_33 on June 27, 2003, 02:04:22 PM
sir joan2,



can you post the spec limit/recommended voltage of each rail (or whatever you call it)? so we can easily refer to it if the need arises. thanks
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 27, 2003, 06:01:15 PM
rail----------low------------high

3.3v---------3.135---------3.465

5.0v---------4.75-----------5.25

12v----------11.4-----------12.6

-5v-----------4.5------------5.5

-12v---------10.8-----------13.2

values in between low anf high are ok, those values outside of these are out of spec......
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ferdz_33 on June 27, 2003, 06:10:57 PM
thanks very much sir,



very helpful indeed. =D
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: juandelacruz on June 27, 2003, 06:26:59 PM
OT:



sir joan2,



do you also repair UPSs? i'm thinking of buying one since the electrical supply in our area fluctuates so badly that my PC reboots. the fluctuations happen at least 2X a month. i'm asking just to be on the safe side.



also what is your recommended brand of UPS? i'm looking at the APC ES UPS 500 now but would like your opinion with regards to its quality and repair-ability in case it gets fried. any other brand and/or model you can recommend.



TIA for you help.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joelreg on June 27, 2003, 06:33:07 PM
sir tony, thanks forl the response. the lo - hi value list is very informative.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 28, 2003, 10:40:12 AM
juandelacruz.

yes i repair psu's but right now i am in neck deep work, remind me later, i have yet to finish gobbit's.



alexan is selling a kit, ups cum modified  sine wave inverter unit, please check it out, i suggest you only use it for your cpu, monitor can use regular outlet, in case of power failure you can use hibernate function, or do Alt-F4 to shut-down your cpu....



i am more in favor of line tamers or line conditioners, avr's are a no-no for me, not needed, since your monitors and pc psu's have good line input voltage regulation to begin with, thus negating the need for avr's. avr's are good for hi-fi home enternainment units, not for pc's
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: juandelacruz on June 28, 2003, 02:58:23 PM
Quote
alexan is selling a kit, ups cum modified sine wave inverter unit, please check it out, i suggest you only use it for your cpu, monitor can use regular outlet, in case of power failure you can use hibernate function, or do Alt-F4 to shut-down your cpu....




thanks, i'll take a look at it.



Quote
yes i repair psu's but right now i am in neck deep work, remind me later, i have yet to finish gobbit's.




ok, i'll pm you later.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on June 28, 2003, 03:12:53 PM
sir, tony...any suggected power devices to protect against fluctuating AC power? my sister-in-law's place, power is flactuating many times during day time, worse from 6pm-9p & only stable when the neighborhood are asleep...my initial idea was to give her my ups but its already busted...and i don't think AVR will be able to protect her pc...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on June 28, 2003, 08:56:48 PM
Quote
i have two spare 300w psu (pentium4 from tornade & task from saxon).....sir, tony...any suggected power devices to protect against fluctuating AC power? my sister-in-law's place, power is flactuating many times during day time, worse from 6pm-9p & only stable when the neighborhood are asleep...my initial idea was to give her my ups but its already busted...and i don't think AVR will be able to protect her pc...


claw,

pentium iv from tornado is fime specimen for modding, i have yet to see the rask from saxon....tell us what happens when there is a fluctuation, is your monitor flickering or blacking out, and/or your pc rebooting by itself?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on June 30, 2003, 09:21:44 AM
afaik,  my entire rig seems to be ok even when the electricity if flactuating from 225V-200V, though i haven't measured the voltages from the psu during such situations.

but if the line still droped to 190V, the cpu shutsdon but not the monitor.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 01, 2003, 07:05:05 PM
the monitor can operate from an ac input of 100volts to 240 volts, that is why i do not recomend to use avr for it, the cpu's psu can operate from 190 to 240, your is a borderline case, an avr can be usefull, i have a stac 500va servo motor type avr if you are interested do give me a call....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: edelacru on July 02, 2003, 04:18:55 PM
On the subject of power supplies.  My  HEC's (350W) 5v rail is on the low side though not yet technically out of spec at 4.75v (-5%) when loaded, 4.84v when idle.



My question to you is that do I need to mod or will merely adjusting the trimpot for the 5v rail do (assuming there is indeed a trimpot).



Thanks!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 02, 2003, 05:35:08 PM
edelacru,

i did not notice any trimpot on a hec 350watt psu, at least not on the one i opened up, since that psu is using a tl494 ic then adjustments can be made to up the 5v rail some more.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: edelacru on July 02, 2003, 06:41:14 PM
Ok, thanks for the input.  But how do I adjust the tl494 IC?



From your experience, is the voltage detection supplied by the BIOS usually accurate?  I really don't want to open up the PSU only to find out that the reading is erroneous and the power going through the line is in fact correct.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: chaos on July 03, 2003, 01:08:36 AM
Master Tony,



I am planning to buy a P4 Dynamo 300W PSU.. have you inspected the insides of a similar PSU?  Ok ba ito or not?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: pinggwams on July 03, 2003, 01:45:57 AM
sir tony,



is it possible to use a cdrom psu alone to power a pentium166/hdd/vidcard/soundcard?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 03, 2003, 06:44:32 AM
chaos,

no, i have not seen the inides of a dynamo 300w psu yet...



Quote
is it possible to use a cdrom psu alone to power a pentium166/hdd/vidcard/soundcard?




yes it is possible....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 03, 2003, 06:49:44 AM
Quote
Ok, thanks for the input. But how do I adjust the tl494 IC?



From your experience, is the voltage detection supplied by the BIOS usually accurate? I really don't want to open up the PSU only to find out that the reading is erroneous and the power going through the line is in fact correct.




i am in process of writing some article regarding psu, i will publish them here when finished....bios readings of voltages although not very accurate has some correlation with your system's performance, ie. out of spec readings almost always result in stability issues.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: edelacru on July 03, 2003, 10:49:17 AM
We'll look forward to that. Thanks bro!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on July 05, 2003, 01:24:25 AM
joan2: i have this MaxPower 300W PSU (+3.3 (20A) & +5v (30A) = 180W MAX combined. For the past 3mos. na gamit ko, consistent ang readings ng +3.3v nya @ 3.10v (max/load) & 3.23 (idle) pero 2 days ago, naging 3.06 (IDLE pa lang!) then kanina lang steady na sa 2.94v (IDLE). How come? from 3.23v, now 2.94v (idle readings)? OK lang sana if me dinagdag akong component, kaso, wala eh. Thanx.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 05, 2003, 06:32:15 AM
CoreXp,

yan ang effect of component aging, your 3.3 volt is below spec. what happens is that there is probably a choke on the 3.3volt rail that is overheating causing the solder connection on the solder side to be annealed, solder is never a good conductor of electricity and the only reason for it being used is it has a lower melting point, about 270*C

thus making soldering very easy....silver solder instead of lead/tin solder would be ideal for high current applications but would be very expensive for manufacturers...are you having stability issue?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 05, 2003, 06:47:31 AM
Quote
Ok, thanks for the input. But how do I adjust the tl494 IC?




pin1 of the ic is where feedback resistors from the 5 and 12volts rails terminate and is biased at 2.5 volts typical, i usually play around with these vaules to get a higher 5volt rail....i would not recomend this as a diy item because of the safety risks involved....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on July 06, 2003, 01:16:21 AM
thanks joan...



strange... after removing my CPU and did the "pin/wire method" to achieve 1.60v default VCore, biglang tumaas ng konti yung 3.3v readings ko, though ang bumaba ngayon ay yung +5v rail ;(. 3.3v Idle =3.18v, +5v = 4.64v idle.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on July 06, 2003, 01:13:49 PM
sir tony,



question lang... pano kung 230W + 230W anong mangyayari? parallel connected by Y... read somewhere magiging 13V daw yung 12V line... magkakaron ng loop?... not sure, ala ako masyado alam sa electronics eh...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 06, 2003, 02:39:07 PM
to be able to parrallel two voltage sources, they must have the same internal impedance in order to share cuurent equally and must have the same terminal voltage, paralleling two supplies with unequal terminal voltages will result in circulating current, one will act as a load of the other, and you end up in a worse situation as before....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 06, 2003, 08:46:44 PM
i received 6 units 300watt psu from bathman for modding, and here is my initial assesment:

1. 3.3volt rating is 14amps, 5volts rating is 33amps.  this psu uses a synchronous rectifier just like an elan vital and an icute 300 watt psu, meaning a combined rating of around 200 watts, looking at the 5volts rectifier, the manufacturer installed a 30amp rectifier, so the total power rating should have been 150, i would say the maker is optimistic that this limit will never be exceeded in use. obviously he's wrong!!!

2. 330/200volts mains filter caps were installed, i have seen 200watts at psu's with 470ufd.200volt caps installed, a very far cry from the 1000ufd/200volt caps used on a hec 350 watt.

3. The heatsink for the rectifiers is small...

4. mains rectifier uses a combination 3amp/1amp types of 2 each, yet no 110volt operation is possible...



i have not taken any voltage readings yet, but owner says they are low....i will keep you posted as to the developments as they turn out...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on July 06, 2003, 09:45:04 PM
sir joan2,



ahehehehe, malnourished pala PSU ko...



as I have said, kaninang umaga nag-test ako isang unit:



AXP1700+@2000mhz

Radeon 9100 64MB

Maxtor 40G

256MD DDR

Exhaust fan



2 complete rounds ng 3dmark 2001, nangamoy hehehehe... sana hindi nasira...



random lockups @ stock speed... have to underclock it para hindi mag-hang...



mangyari po ay gawin niyo ang lahat sa abot ng inyong makakaya :D



Quote
they must have the same internal impedance in order to share curent equally and must have the same terminal voltage


hmmm, meron ako 2 same generic 250W psu... sunod ko padala pagkatapos nyan hehehe... el cheepo 500W PSU here I come!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 07, 2003, 06:49:11 AM
the manufacturer never anticipated that his psu will be used for overclocking.....lol!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on July 07, 2003, 08:17:55 AM
lol!

[defense suit]hey! even @ stock speed I experience lock-ups... :P[/defense suit]





re: UPS



can i just straight swap my ups' battery with a car battery???
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 07, 2003, 10:05:29 AM
Quote
can i just straight swap my ups' battery with a car battery???






you sure can, the higher the amp-hour rating, the longer your back-up time becomes. there is a limit however to size of battery and this is determined by the capacity of the battery charger portion of your ups, you can however use external chargers for the bigger batteries then connect them once fully charged....one last thing make sure they are of the same voltage ie. 12volts.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on July 07, 2003, 10:10:34 AM
OT:

Quote
capacity of the battery charger portion of your ups,


1SM yata yung maliit... pwede kaya yun with my el cheepo UPS600VA (generic??)?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 07, 2003, 05:57:27 PM
use the maintenance free type battery if using indoors, less fumes....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on July 10, 2003, 03:00:45 AM
At last! naupgrade ko na rin PSU ko, HEC 475W readings (SpeedFan 4.08) while running Prime95 + GLMark 800x600x32 Windowed.



(http://www.uploadit.org/files/090703-Image2.jpg)



Time to change CMOS battery, kaya pala ntong mga nakaraang araw lagi nagrereset CMOS ko.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 10, 2003, 07:16:06 AM
your readings are very close to limits....the power supply is really laboring under load...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CMT on July 10, 2003, 03:41:19 PM
Re: Car Battery for UPS.



I am using one now. I suggest you get the ones w/ external battery condition indicators & maintenance free so you'll be aware of the condition of the battery & less worries. Medyo mahal nga lang :(
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CMT on July 10, 2003, 03:49:11 PM
You can use nga pala one battery as source for two or more inverters in case you need to power more than a single inverter can :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CMT on July 10, 2003, 03:50:24 PM
recharging nga pala can take weeks depending on your chargers capacity, he he he
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on July 10, 2003, 10:22:28 PM
@Joan2: pansin ko nga, dun sa +5v rail, pero when I installed the same PSU sa P4 1.8GHz PC (1.7v), medyo constant yung readings nung +3.3v = 3.29v~3.30v & +5v = 4.96v ~ 5.02v (load ~ idle).  Idle readings ko nga pala for my current setup is +3.3v = 3.28v +5.0v = 4.88v.



Questions:



(1) Me effect ba yung power regulation design nung motherboard, 2-phase vs 3-phase. Kasi 2-phase lang tong ECS L7S7A2, assuming 3-phase sya, same readings pa rin ba?



(2) Ano nga pala yung 5.0V SB?



(3) Correct me if I'm wrong, PCI cards rely on the +5v rail, AGP card & DDR SDRAM(s) = +3.3v rail, CPU (AXP) = +5v rail...?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 11, 2003, 07:11:32 AM
CoreXp,

p4 boards gets its vcore from the 12volt rail mostly so the 12 volt need not regulate very well because of the wider voltage range that the buck regualtors work on, so your 5volt rail is not stressed too much unlike with amd procs...in this regard intel scores....

to answer your questions:

1. 3phase or 2phase, it doen't matter as the load will draw whatever power it requires, less ripple voltage though can be obtained with a 3phase than with a two phase...

2. the 5.0V SB is the standby voltage that supplies the usb, and mobo circuits like for power on, without this atx power supplies will not turn on, you can not boot up your machine....this 5.0V SB  supplies initial power for the psu's internal cicuits...

3. PCI cards use   5volts mostly while agp and system memory uses 3.3volts, cpu uses the 5volts mostly on amd boards, but some newer ones use also the 12 volts, you will know this is true if your mobo has that 4pin auxilliary 12volt connector header on the mobo close to the 20 pin header...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on July 11, 2003, 11:30:53 PM
Thanks for the info sir Tony...



Tsaka, na-inspect mo rin na ba what's inside the Dynamo 350W PSU? if not, try ko na lang i-post later mga photos ng internal nung PSU, I think, puede na rin yun para malaman ko comments mo about this PSU. Curious lang talaga ako eh...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: alikishi on July 11, 2003, 11:58:17 PM
joan2, my brand new HEC 350 doesn't show the full 5v in that rail. Bagsak kaagad siya sa 4.89v. Is that normal?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 12, 2003, 06:50:18 AM
4.89v is still within limit of 4.75, i don't know how tightly hec controlls the psu production, as with any process there will be variations, i have no idea what the range is statistics wise, but yours is still a good figure..
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: draganta on July 12, 2003, 07:42:00 AM
@joan2;



got my lanlon pero awala pa yung pambayad sau...

post ko pics dito by sat or sunday am...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 12, 2003, 02:01:50 PM
yes, please post picture.....please bring your camera when you go to my place....



Q: How do you determine if a power supply has a very low impedance?

A: take note of the 5volt rail voltages at standby(cpu idle) and at full load, the difference between the two should be close to zero, take my leadman 400w for example, at no load, the reading is 5.01, at full load it reads 4.95 so the difference in this case is 5.01-4.95 = 0.06, now you check yours, the greater the difference, the lower the quality of your psu...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on July 12, 2003, 11:19:28 PM
Sir Tony, eto na yung link http://www.uploadit.org/files/120703-dynamo350w.JPG (http://www.uploadit.org/files/120703-dynamo350w.JPG) nung Dynamo 350W PSU (pix), wala akong idea sa mga internals ng PSU, kaya hinulaan ko na lang kung aling parts ang magagamit mo sa pag-gather ng info. Heto ratings from the manufacturer:



+5v = 30A

+12v = 10A

+3.3v = 20A

+5v SB = 2A

-5v = 0.5A

-12v = 0.8A



+3.3 & +5v combined output = 160W



Weight, sa lahat ng PSU ko dito, ito ang pinakamagaan, mas magaan pa kesa sa Delta 180W & Generic (MaxPower) 300W PSU and  "almost" 3.5x na mas mabigat yung HEC 475W. Tingin ko talaga dito, parang 250W lang ang performance. Thanks.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 13, 2003, 07:00:54 AM
CoreXp,

thanks for the picture, may i use it for my future articles, anyway by the looks of it it looks like a 230watt "logic" atx psu, really featherweight.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JaRoNgSki on July 14, 2003, 12:57:50 AM
I have a "Pentium IV" psu from a tornado casing.. MBM shows this voltage readings..



+2.5 = 2.53

+3.3 = 3.22

+5.0 = 4.96

+12.0 = 13.43!



i have modded it to a dual fan (HEC model). Paano ba ayusin yung +12v? at yung +5v & +3.3v na rin.. my rig has axp2000+ and an ECS board..
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 14, 2003, 07:06:40 AM
Quote
i have modded it to a dual fan (HEC model). Paano ba ayusin yung +12v? at yung +5v & +3.3v na rin.. my rig has axp2000+ and an ECS board..




your psu is fine specimen for modding as its pcb has holes for additional components, the 5volt rectifier can be upgraded by simply adding in another 30amp shotcky dual rectifier...your 5volt rail is still ok so with the 3.3v, your 12volt rail on the other hand is quite high....are you having random reboots? if not, then this is one problem that you may be able to live with....i have a fix for this but still on experimental basis...see my next post....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 14, 2003, 07:12:51 AM
q: why is it that as you load the 5volt rail, the 12volt rail voltage goes up instead of down?



a: this is beacuse of the nature of construction wherein, the 5volt and the 12 volt rectifiers gets ac from the same auto-transformer, in principle, autotransformers operate with both induction and conduction, unlike ordinary transformers which rely on induction to transform voltage....there is more....as you load up the 5volt rail, the pwm controller chip tl494, reacts by increasing the duty cycle of the pulses it feeds the transformer, net effect being higher ac voltage for the 5volt rectifers, since 12 volts is connected auto transformer, the voltage there also increases, now since the lead current for the 12volt is significantly lower than that of the 5 volts, the 12volts rail stays high...hope you can follow this explanation.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on July 14, 2003, 08:13:12 AM
check out this PSU mod... well, sort of mod, hmmm



http://www.themodfathers.com/articles/beetlepsu.php (http://www.themodfathers.com/articles/beetlepsu.php)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 14, 2003, 04:33:29 PM
CoreXp,

the picture of the dynamo 350watt you posted looks very much like a "logic"230watt psu.



1. ic#3 v2193f8197t is the main chopper transformer

2. ee-16-1 ye 0237 is the driver transformer feeding the bases of the chopper transistors and is in turn driven by the tl494 pwm ic, ic#2

3. ee 19ye the is 5volt standby circuit output transformer, this circuit is live once you plugged your psu into the wall, regardless of wether your system is up or not.

this is a typical generic psu, a hec 350 psu also looks very much like this, but the components used are of much better quality and quantity...that is why i call the hec350w a generic psu....lolz!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JaRoNgSki on July 14, 2003, 11:36:40 PM
how can i add a 30 shotcky dual rectifier to my psu? can you ellaborate it.. :) ( i mean, what part to buy, where to put it or replace it).. i dont have random reboots, but sometimes when i play games, i fall back to desktop bwith no errors.. hope this helps.. :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 15, 2003, 06:33:21 AM
if you are adept with electronincs you can do it, but these mods are not to be undertaken by newbies as a diy thing as safety issues are involved. there are risks involved, have someone knowledgeable like an electronincs technician do it for you....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 16, 2003, 11:07:20 AM
Quote
check out this PSU mod... well, sort of mod, hmmm





looks cool, kawawq lang yung bata, nawalan ng laruan.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JaRoNgSki on July 17, 2003, 01:26:04 AM
me alam ako sa electronics but not that deep.. :) meron electronic troubleshooting kasi yung voc course ko e.. :) msg me kung paano i-mod yung psu ko 4 stability at yung 12v rail.. thanks 4 BIG help.. :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JaRoNgSki on July 17, 2003, 01:30:00 AM
btw nga pala, yung orig psu ng casing ko e bumigay nung minsan akong nag stability test.. biglang namatay then wala na.. i thought mobo ko ang nadali.. but the shop technician said that it is the psu.. i notice that it still has power but cant supply enough for the rig to run.. any suggestions about it? :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 17, 2003, 07:16:41 AM
JaRoNgSki,

please post the make and model number of your psu and which casing it came with, then i can comment....i can repair then modify it for you...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on July 17, 2003, 01:18:11 PM
inside TK-930TX:

-mospec S30D40C

-MOSPEC S10C40C

-S494P (the only ic  in the unit)

-2x 330uF/200v

-the main chopper (win-33p(x)) is larger than psu found in tonrnado's

-small transformers: win-22/19(x) & win-16a(q)



**i noticed that most psu's have two IC's fpr the pwm circuit, but this unit only has one - s494p - common to most generic psu...



** too follow: inside 300w CHS psu...



any insights sir tony? =)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 17, 2003, 02:23:32 PM
claw,

the s494 is the pwm controller chip, tl494, dbl494, ka7500, they are all the same.. the mospec s30d40c is a 30amp, 40volt piv schottky rectifier for the 5voolt rail,, the s10c40c a 10amp rectifier for the 3.3 volt rail..only one ic means that discrete transistors were used for over voltage, over current,  and start-up circuits....can be moded....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: badong01 on July 18, 2003, 02:23:27 AM
Sir, what's your opinion if I replace the 2 filter caps (200V) with one rated at 400V.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Capcom on July 18, 2003, 03:46:11 AM
guys is this reading fine ?



       current , low , high , average



+3.3 3.20 3.15 3.23 3.19

+5.00 5.00 4.97 5.00 4.98

+12.00 11.37 11.45 11.67 11.66

-12.00 -11.37 -11.45 -11.37 -11.38

-5.00 -4.84 -4.84 -4.79 -4.80
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 18, 2003, 05:59:10 AM
Quote
Sir, what's your opinion if I replace the 2 filter caps (200V) with one rated at 400V.




if yours is a half-bridge type then you can not replace it with a 400volt type caps, you can increase the ufd value, from 220uf to say 680 or even 820ufd...if your psu uses a mosfet switching type, then you can, just cut off the connections for a 220/110 volt selector switch, reason being our power source here is 220 volts and no need for the 110 volt option, besides this will elimninate potential damage to your psu in case the switch is accidentaly placed in the 110 volt position...



Quote
guys is this reading fine ?



current , low , high , average



+3.3 3.20 3.15 3.23 3.19

+5.00 5.00 4.97 5.00 4.98

+12.00 11.37 11.45 11.67 11.66

-12.00 -11.37 -11.45 -11.37 -11.38

-5.00 -4.84 -4.84 -4.79 -4.80




looks to me you have a healthy psu, i wouldn' worry about the 12 volt rail, unless you are having stability issues....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: glezah on July 18, 2003, 12:25:55 PM
me prob ako sa isang psu ko...



sometimes it can turn on my other PC. but sometimes it cant power on. the remedy i've been doing is that i will unplug the power cable from the PSU, plug it again, until the PC can be turned on.



what seems to be the problem?



right now, im not using this psu anymore. pero nangyari na ito sa 2 PC ko - same psu. and unfortunately, it's out of warranty. its a 300W pentium4 type of Psu that is bundled with p4 casings.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on July 18, 2003, 12:50:44 PM
Quote
if your psu uses a mosfet switching type, then you can, just cut off the connections for a 220/110 volt selector switch, reason being our power source here is 220 volts and no need for the 110 volt option, besides this will elimninate potential damage to your psu in case the switch is accidentaly placed in the 110 volt position...




may certain areas sa baguio na 110V (not sure kung hanggang ngayon), ang hirap magplantsa doon, tagal uminit... tapos electric fan bagal ikot...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on July 18, 2003, 12:55:24 PM
yup, may 110 outlet kami dito...even our applainces are 110V...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on July 18, 2003, 01:04:29 PM
OT: ahehehe, meron pa rin pala hanggang ngayon... bili ka ng APC UPS 1000VA sa tpc, meron doon mura lang... perfect sa place mo...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on July 18, 2003, 02:21:59 PM
OT: la pa bugdet eh.. =) pero tempting! hehehe...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 18, 2003, 05:53:11 PM
Quote
sometimes it can turn on my other PC. but sometimes it cant power on. the remedy i've been doing is that i will unplug the power cable from the PSU, plug it again, until the PC can be turned on.





what happens is when you on your pc the over current protection ckt on your psu trips, so that you have to unplug it to reset....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Capcom on July 19, 2003, 07:39:03 AM
ano po ba yung sinu-supply ng 12v rail ? cpu ? or almost everything ?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on July 19, 2003, 09:17:26 AM
almost evrthing except most components sa motherboards such as the cards an i/o ports..
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 19, 2003, 11:04:13 AM
Quote
ano po ba yung sinu-supply ng 12v rail ? cpu ? or almost everything ?






motors of ide's, fans mostly, in newer intel boards and some amd boards of the atx12 spec....you will know this is true in your case if your mobo has a 4pin header, in which case you have to plug in the auxilliary 12volt from the psu.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: DarK_SiDe on July 21, 2003, 10:15:09 AM
sir sent you pm. hope you can help me. thanx
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Mitsurugi on July 21, 2003, 10:33:17 AM
Question lang how about computer restarting it self does power supply involve here??? Tnx.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on July 22, 2003, 12:24:55 AM
yes, possible na PSU yan.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 24, 2003, 03:25:15 PM
Quote
Question lang how about computer restarting it self does power supply involve here??? Tnx.







you bet...most likely the 12 volt rail going over the limit, tripping the overvoltage sensor, even generics have this,
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: rodmixalot on July 25, 2003, 04:15:12 PM
same prob with me! ung 12V rail ko umaabot ng 13.8 to 13.51! how can i prevent it?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 25, 2003, 05:31:44 PM
if you are into overclocking, back down a bit....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on July 29, 2003, 10:20:55 AM
i have an dynamo 350watt PSU.



ffg installed:



1 hdd

1 cd rom

usb optical mouse

g4 mx440

athlon 1700



And i am experiencing random shutdowns! what i do is patayin ko muna yung avr. wait 1 min. turn on avr again. then turn on CPU. coz if i dont turn d AVR off, ayaw mag-on ng PC. whats the problem?!?



FYI: me not into overclocking.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 30, 2003, 07:49:57 AM
Quote
And i am experiencing random shutdowns! what i do is patayin ko muna yung avr. wait 1 min. turn on avr again. then turn on CPU. coz if i dont turn d AVR off, ayaw mag-on ng PC. whats the problem?!?





try this, do not use the avr, plug your cpu directly to wall outlet, the avr increases the line impedance by introducing insertion loss...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cartan on August 01, 2003, 08:37:31 AM
so you are saying that it is better to not use the avr anymore when this happens?



would this problem be solved if we have the psu "modded"?



may units kasi ako na ganyan sir tony eh...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 01, 2003, 05:57:15 PM
most avrs' so called, uses an small autotransformer with thin wires and high resistance, that is why i stay away from them....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cartan on August 01, 2003, 11:04:10 PM
is there really a practical need for avrs for computers aside from the multiple sockets that it provides?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 02, 2003, 06:51:25 AM
i do not see any need for it, it is just an added cost....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: CoreXP on August 02, 2003, 11:08:19 PM
guys, check this out http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1841 (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1841)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: HjEaNmReYs on August 03, 2003, 01:42:47 AM
sir joan tanong ko lang po kung kakayanin ng psu ko yung gainward ultra700dt, balak ko kc palitan tong mx440 ko eh would you recomend dual psu for my rig.



specs

p4 1.7 @ 2.00

ep 4pead

1 cd-rw

1 hdd



ito po yung voltage report ng usdm



vagp        1.472

vcore       1.776

vdimm     2.592

+5v         5.08

+12         11.673-11.916

-12          11.622-11.705

-5 -          5.898

vbat         3.344-3.408

5vsb         4.993



salamat po na marami
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 03, 2003, 07:22:43 AM
you did not mention your psu brand, anyway from the voltage readings looks like you have a healty power supply there....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Scholes18 on August 03, 2003, 01:39:57 PM
In reply to Joan2 w/all due respect,why the heck do you need to use a dual PSU when you can buy one 400watt PSU?I only use a 330 watt Enermax PSU and I havent had a single shutdown or restart.Used all of the 7 Molex connectors on it.Also in reply to those who have problems on your system about sudden shutdown and restarts, it might not be the PSU but most probably you have a Bad Ram stick espescially when using Generic Ram.My specs :

 Retail MSI K7N Delta-L Mobo,Boxed AMD AthlonXP Barton 2500 running just 1.83ghz on 333 fsb,1.24ghz Corsair DDR2700,Thermaltake heat sink,Retail ATI 9700 Pro 128mb,Cendyne DVD-ROM,Sony DRU500 DVD-R,RW,+R,Floppy to boot for troubleshoot,and a 19 inch ViewSonic A90f 0.21mm horizontal dot pitch.(http://www.tkstoystand.com/IMAGES/PINS/cp_bart_simpson_pin.jpg)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: toffer on August 03, 2003, 01:44:22 PM
Scholes18, read the first post.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on August 03, 2003, 01:56:22 PM
Quote
In reply to Joan2 w/all due respect,why the heck do you need to use a dual PSU when you can buy one 400watt PSU?I only use a 330 watt Enermax PSU and I havent had a single shutdown or restart.Used all of the 7 Molex connectors on it.Also in reply to those who have problems on your system about sudden shutdown and restarts, it might not be the PSU but most probably you have a Bad Ram stick espescially when using Generic Ram.




Quote

q : why dual power supply?

a : generic power supplies are those that came bundled with the casing and as such are

made of cheap parts and or construction quality is of the so so variety.

as such they seem to fail to deliver power stated on their labels. this is specially

obvious when used in amd athlons and geforce4 video card combinations. i have seen

a 300 watt psu with a filter choke on the 3.3volt rail burned out and another not only

burned out but also desoldered itself out of the circuit board, while in another the

5 volts rectifiers shorted out. the power supply simply can not hack it. this is not to

say that generic power supplies are bad, it is just a matter of derating the psu to be

able to use them safely and thus avoid psu failures. having said those, to answer the

question, dual psu is intended as a cheaper alternative to buying an enermax or a hec

psu which costs 5 to 8 times that of a generic psu.




why bother spending a thousand bucks to get a 400W PSU when you have a 300W "Generic" (and in most cases an extra 200/250/300W AT/ATX) PSU to work with???



(http://cache.nba.com/media/lakers/payton_malone_355_030717.jpg)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 03, 2003, 06:05:57 PM
Quote
In reply to Joan2 w/all due respect,why the heck do you need to use a dual PSU when you can buy one 400watt PSU?I only use a 330 watt Enermax PSU and I havent had a single shutdown or restart.Used all of the 7 Molex connectors on it.Also in reply to those who have problems on your system about sudden shutdown and restarts, it might not be the PSU but most probably you have a Bad Ram stick espescially when using Generic Ram




dual psu is for those who already own generic psu's, if you are about to buy one then get the higher rated psu....when i was in singapore, i wanted to construct an athlon tbird 1.2ghz, which at the time was the highest clock speed available, so when i purchased an enlight casing, i asked the storeman to replace the power supply that came bundled with  the casing with a 400watt psu, a leadman lp6100d, that was two years ago and  i never regretted that decision...i made that decision   knowing the full implications of  what a weak power supply can do to my system...that is why i am sharing this thread so that others may be so informed...so then you may ask me, what is the reason in case i would like to purchase a hec or an enermax? my answer would be, because i have the money to spend!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Ulysses on August 03, 2003, 07:11:46 PM
That's what happens when you don't read the whole thread, you get egg on your face, hehehe.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: HjEaNmReYs on August 04, 2003, 07:27:21 AM
specs

p4 1.7 @ 2.00

ep 4pead

1 cd-rw

1 hdd



ito po yung voltage report ng usdm



vagp 1.472

vcore 1.776

vdimm 2.592

+5v 5.08

+12 11.673-11.916

-12 11.622-11.705

-5 - 5.898

vbat 3.344-3.408

5vsb 4.993



generic lang pla itong psu ko. sir joan are you saying it would not be a problem replacing my mx440 into a ti4400. salamat po sa mga sagot mabuhay ka sir joan
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: slide on August 04, 2003, 07:59:40 AM
he he.  kabago-bago na-wapapaw agad
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: alikishi on August 04, 2003, 08:07:05 AM
Quote
In reply to Joan2 w/all due respect,why the heck do you need to use a dual PSU when you can buy one 400watt PSU?I only use a 330 watt Enermax PSU and I havent had a single shutdown or restart.Used all of the 7 Molex connectors on it.Also in reply to those who have problems on your system about sudden shutdown and restarts, it might not be the PSU but most probably you have a Bad Ram stick espescially when using Generic Ram.My specs :

Retail MSI K7N Delta-L Mobo,Boxed AMD AthlonXP Barton 2500 running just 1.83ghz on 333 fsb,1.24ghz Corsair DDR2700,Thermaltake heat sink,Retail ATI 9700 Pro 128mb,Cendyne DVD-ROM,Sony DRU500 DVD-R,RW,+R,Floppy to boot for troubleshoot,and a 19 inch ViewSonic A90f 0.21mm horizontal dot pitch.





lol... wapapaw
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on August 04, 2003, 08:53:55 AM
HjEaNmReYs,



if you'll observe sir joan2's posts, ok ganyan reading basta hindi grabe magflunctuate... also P4s mainly rely on 12Vs...



(tama ba ako sir tony :D)





I'll send today 2x300W Lan Lon PSU and 2x250W generic PSU... If master tony, could successfully parallel those pair of PSUs, i'll sell my HEC 475W right away!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on August 04, 2003, 08:57:50 AM
Quote
That's what happens when you don't read the whole thread, you get egg on your face, hehehe.


a rotten egg would just be better!...

so next time, read before airing!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 04, 2003, 04:06:35 PM
Quote
generic lang pla itong psu ko. sir joan are you saying it would not be a problem replacing my mx440 into a ti4400. salamat po sa mga sagot mabuhay ka sir joan







you can do that and we will see,if your system remains stable then it's ok...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: mpfuf on August 04, 2003, 05:30:08 PM
wanted to buy a 400 watt psu when I bought my rig at greenhills a few months ago pero tiwanan lang nila ako. Stupid people.  Share ko lang.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 05, 2003, 07:07:16 AM
"the costumer is always right" (even if sometimes he is wrong, lol!!)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: zerodivide on August 05, 2003, 08:14:37 PM
Joan2,



Are you familiar with how much temperature affects actual total output on a PSU?   Doing some rough calculations I needed 390w peak and 230w continous with a 21A 12v rail.    I saw some PSUs that looked good from Sparkle/Fortron but they were EPS12V with a 20pin converter.  Both had 36A on the 12v rail and could do 510w but their operating temperature was 0-25C.    So I thought it would only work in a climate controlled environment (like a real data center).   The Antec Tru550 looked good with 24A 12v rail but PC Power & Cooling (yes, why trust the competitor?) had specs showing the Antec dipping to 350w when running at 40C.   So it became a decision of how much to risk all this equipment to the summer weather.  8-)



Wish I saw this thread before buying a new PSU ... thought about having a second PSU externally instead but didn't know enough electronics to mess with it. 8-)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: HjEaNmReYs on August 05, 2003, 10:50:55 PM
sir joan,



nakabili na ko ng ti4400 oks naman ang system hindi ng crash ito nga pla ulit yng voltage report.



vagp 1.472-1.488

vcore 1.776

vdimm 2.592

+5v 5.053

+12 11.856

-12 11.705-11.787

-5 - 4.948

vbat 3.296-3.408

5vsb 4.993



sir joan yung -5v medyo bumaba ng konti oks lng ba to?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Scholes18 on August 06, 2003, 01:54:50 AM
That's what happens when you don't read the whole thread, you get egg on your face, hehehe.a rotten egg would just be better!...

so next time, read before airing!

Yeah big deal if I'm new to this forum,most of you guys just dont get what I meant about my reply to the post.Even if you have a dual PSU case,PSU's get hot,so you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU.And if you dont have a dual PSU case,what will your system look like?Probably like crap and sloppy.





 (http://www.yelloworld.org/immagini/bart_a4.jpg)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Ulysses on August 06, 2003, 02:02:40 AM
we'll miss you scholes18, hehehe.



wapapaw LMAO!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on August 06, 2003, 02:35:46 AM
http://www.pinoypc.net/tehboard/viewthread.php?thread=12746&page=1 (http://www.pinoypc.net/tehboard/viewthread.php?thread=12746&page=1)



http://www.tipidpc.com/items/view.php?id=23817 (http://www.tipidpc.com/items/view.php?id=23817)



just imagine how it'll look...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 06, 2003, 08:32:50 AM
Quote
sir joan yung -5v medyo bumaba ng konti oks lng ba to?




ok lang yang -5volt mo, ano nga pala ang psu mo at saang case galing yan?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: HjEaNmReYs on August 07, 2003, 12:18:52 AM
sir joan lang brand name ito, model name lng mabibigay ko SZ-300wat atx thatsjust about it. dati my kinabit akong 4 fans na tig .20 apm, thats the time i was experiencing cold boots. prang diesel engine na cira yung heater. I have to on/off about 3 to 5 times. badtrip kaya skeleton itong unit ko ngyon. sir joan pm mo naman sakin kung magkano aabutin pagnagpamod ako syo ng cdrom psu. thanks
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 07, 2003, 07:13:04 AM
Quote
Are you familiar with how much temperature affects actual total output on a PSU? Doing some rough calculations I needed 390w peak and 230w continous with a 21A 12v rail. I saw some PSUs that looked good from Sparkle/Fortron but they were EPS12V with a 20pin converter. Both had 36A on the 12v rail and could do 510w but their operating temperature was 0-25C. So I thought it would only work in a climate controlled environment (like a real data center). The Antec Tru550 looked good with 24A 12v rail but PC Power & Cooling (yes, why trust the competitor?) had specs showing the Antec dipping to 350w when running at 40C. So it became a decision of how much to risk all this equipment to the summer weather. 8-)





temperature is the nemesis of semiconductors, as such derating with temperature must always be done to avoid failures, while i do not have exact figures, a psu rated at 510watts at an ambient temp of 25*C must be derated, meaning you must not draw more than 350 watts with an ambient temp of 40*C as in the case of an antec....so good ventilation inside the pc casing really helps a lot.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: alikishi on August 07, 2003, 07:17:51 AM
Quote
Yeah big deal if I'm new to this forum,most of you guys just dont get what I meant about my reply to the post.Even if you have a dual PSU case,PSU's get hot,so you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU.And if you dont have a dual PSU case,what will your system look like?Probably like crap and sloppy.




yes... it's a big deal if you are new to this forum and you act as if you are the king of the world...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dean on August 07, 2003, 07:52:57 AM
Quote
My specs :

Retail MSI K7N Delta-L Mobo,Boxed AMD AthlonXP Barton 2500 running just 1.83ghz on 333 fsb,1.24ghz Corsair DDR2700,Thermaltake heat sink,Retail ATI 9700 Pro 128mb,Cendyne DVD-ROM,Sony DRU500 DVD-R,RW,+R,Floppy to boot for troubleshoot,and a 19 inch ViewSonic A90f 0.21mm horizontal dot pitch.




ngayon lang ako nakakita ng 1.24GHz na memory ah...



ahh... alam ko na... kase DDR2700 yun gamit niya.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dean on August 07, 2003, 07:57:40 AM
Quote
Even if you have a dual PSU case,PSU's get hot,so you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU.And if you dont have a dual PSU case,what will your system look like?Probably like crap and sloppy.




who cares if it looks bad, as long as it works properly =P
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: zeon on August 07, 2003, 08:29:28 AM
Quote
kase DDR2700 yun gamit niya.




wow ang bilis ng ram na yun a. 2700 mhz nag takbo!





Quote
And if you dont have a dual PSU case,what will your system look like?Probably like crap and sloppy




If you're a crappy modder then you'll get crappy results.  You can be creative and just use the 5 and 1/4 bay.  As for heat, that's what good case airflow and case fans are for.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on August 07, 2003, 09:07:51 AM
Quote
If you're a crappy modder then you'll get crappy results. You can be creative and just use the 5 and 1/4 bay. As for heat, that's what good case airflow and case fans are for.


this is where true modding takes place!...bilib ako sa mga naka-dual psu na maganda pa rin ang overall layout ng cpu! they deserve a hail of applause!....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dean on August 07, 2003, 09:38:55 AM
maybe he uses a can opener for his mods.

(http://www.fastfoodessentials.net/acatalog/duluxecanopener.jpg)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: slide on August 07, 2003, 09:41:41 AM
hey! some people use shotguns ang pickaxes!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: spolarium on August 07, 2003, 09:42:12 AM
OT:  This is just a case of foot in mouth disease :P
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: slide on August 07, 2003, 09:45:22 AM
http://www.meetthegeeks.org/howto/dont.htm (http://www.meetthegeeks.org/howto/dont.htm)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: slide on August 07, 2003, 09:48:28 AM
ot:

or microphone in butt?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dean on August 07, 2003, 09:54:58 AM
j00 = liek that huh?



whooopps.... ot na tayo...hehehehehe...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 07, 2003, 11:28:17 AM
i guess anybody has the right to make a fool out of himself once in a while, but as lng as we can laugh about it, and there is a lesson to be learned, then its ok in the end...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Klay on August 07, 2003, 01:49:18 PM
hehehe... so has anyone welcomed him yet? :D
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 07, 2003, 02:04:18 PM
"you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU"



Why do you use your PSU as an instake???... Funny mine exhausts hot air from the case.



You are assumng one will be an intake... many full tower cases have provisions for 2 PSU's.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 07, 2003, 02:15:57 PM
Just joined the thread now (read some of the previous pages.. but am lazy... so if questions already answered... sige I deserve the flames)



1. Is it possible to place it on the bottom of your PC opposite your PCI slots (I dont use any of mine) horzontally. You would need some kind of duct to vent air out.



2. I remember someone modding PSU's to be as large as 5"1/4's drive bays...  that would make placement even eaiser.



Really would like to place the PSU's at the back of the case...



See was thinking 2x300W HE's costs less than a 450W (or was it 475W) HEC and I already have a 350W, so maybe I could add another, (have an Enlight 250W just sitting here).



If you have a PC70 though... well it has room for 2 PSU's at the top/back.



Any pic's :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dean on August 07, 2003, 05:03:00 PM
1) yes, you can place them anywhere in the case as long as there's space for it.



2) yes, that'll work too.



Quote
Why do you use your PSU as an instake???... Funny mine exhausts hot air from the case.




good one ral, i haven't really seen psu that has its fan working as an intake fan.  maybe that's what his psu's are like.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: geode on August 08, 2003, 12:41:40 AM
btw, i'm not sure if joan2 has posted this here but i saw one of his dual psu mods.  he had literally two psu's inside a standard psu casing.  not only do you get the power and convenience of two psu's but you won't have anymore problems with respect to where you'll place the thing.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Scholes18 on August 08, 2003, 02:19:58 AM
yes... it's a big deal if you are new to this forum and you act as if you are the king of the world...hey Alikishi,whats your problem?I'm not acting as a king.this is a forum and this should be open suggestions right?your a moderator but you dont show respect to new members and if you have manners and you you wanna tell me something,pm me not show unprofessionalism in the forum.I didnt break any rules here as far i as i know.is there a rule here that if your new here i should kiss your ***?i'm also a+ certified and i know my stuff.And also to Dean,"ngayon lang ako nakakita ng 1.24GHz na memory ah..."thats a shortcut to 1024mb if you know what i mean.2 sticks of 512 ddr2700 that is.Even if you guys in this forum have bad feelings towards me eventhough i didnt break any rules here,i still wanna share some good imformation that i got from a very good source on the net.This also is in regard to Ral.I know PSU have fans that blow out air but PSU's heat can also affect the system temp inside."If power supplies become too hot as a result of overloading or a voltage drop, the devices should switch off automatically. This prevents the hardware from being damaged".if any noobs here are interested this link might help a bit 4u.http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20030609/index.html
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: barurutor on August 08, 2003, 03:23:25 AM
Quote
I didnt break any rules here as far i as i know




How about the unwritten one that goes "Don't act like a smart-ass on your first post"?



Quote
i'm also a+ certified and i know my stuff




Eh yun pala eh, dapat sinabi mo na from the start para hindi ka na namin guguluhin :P



Quote
And also to Dean,"ngayon lang ako nakakita ng 1.24GHz na memory ah..."thats a shortcut to 1024mb if you know what i mean




Does the A+ training teach you not to use proper terminologies as well?



Oh, and by the way, ang hirap basahin ng posts mo.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: sandstig on August 08, 2003, 04:58:52 AM
Maybe the Enter/Return key on his keyboard isn't working?



Anyway, first time I've heard 1.24GHz being used as a short-cut for 1,024MB (a.k.a. 1GB). Maybe he doesn't know that "GHz" stands for Gigahertz and "GB" stands for Gigabytes?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 08, 2003, 05:20:37 AM
Sholes18, the danger of power supplies overheating is when they are overloaded, meaning you are drawing more power than they can supply.  Whether you have one or two PSU's if your system draws more wattage than the PSU's can supply they will overheat. Thats when there is a danger. You gotta learn how to read.



In short you dont want to run a PSU at full load, nor do you want to overload one.  Thats why you may want 2 of them to prevent overloading.



The only noob here is you.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: draganta on August 08, 2003, 05:29:16 AM
oh NO!!! another one of this???



lets all calm down and return to the topic...



no more smooching around...lol :)



peace to all of you...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 08, 2003, 05:33:19 AM
Quote
Yeah big deal if I'm new to this forum,most of you guys just dont get what I meant about my reply to the post.Even if you have a dual PSU case,PSU's get hot,so you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU.And if you dont have a dual PSU case,what will your system look like?Probably like crap and sloppy.




"you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU" ... hotter airflow into your system, I thought you know that they act as exhausts...



Interested though in your "1.24GHz" memory... mine only run at 417MHz.... where did you buy them?



"i still wanna share some good imformation that i got from a very good source on the net."



Actually, we prefer information based on personal knowledge. Easy to fail to comprehend something when you don't knwo the mechanics behind it.



As for heat... dont worry we run our XP1700/1800/2100/2400/2500+'s at 2200MHz-2500MHz... we are not strangers to heat (and were not to worried about the one generated by the PSU, but the northbridge, memory and cpu).



a+ certified... I think you mean "A+" and certified by whom and for what?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 08, 2003, 05:35:47 AM
@ draganta:



Fair enough... anyway better to ignore senseless rantings.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: draganta on August 08, 2003, 05:54:27 AM
thanx ral...



We all post here to compare and help each other in our RIGZ...



We don't brag our parts, information is very good for all of and certifications should not be bragged about...

==============

Most of us here are more on the enthusiastic approach, we want to see what happens if I do this and that...



Well so far the psu that was lended to me by sir tony has supplied me enough... but can't attach ore of my fans takot ko lang maoverload...



sir joan2 punta na ko mamaya...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: barurutor on August 08, 2003, 06:42:12 AM
Quote
a+ certified... I think you mean "A+" and certified by whom and for what?





It's a certification for computer hardware techs, though I'm surprised he doesn't know the simple difference between GB and GHz.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: draganta on August 08, 2003, 07:09:57 AM
lol @ barurutor...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Scholes18 on August 08, 2003, 07:24:26 AM
Interested though in your "1.24GHz" memory.yep I was wrong there and I admit that, but its an honest mistake.I'm certified though by Comptia for PC repair and not really a big deal.The point is I didnt break any rules in this thread that the moderators really make a fuzz out of it instead of going on with what the topic is all about.My only point to Joan2,which I think is the only one here that really know his or her stuff,is being practical and having more room inside the computer case to have better airflow.Im not bragging about my parts,just posting the specs of my system that doesnt shutdown due to PSU failure in w/c i used all 7 molex connectors.I'm also a pinoy and I just wonder when some pinoys get rid of their suppressed attitudes and just move on.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: wasted_brain on August 08, 2003, 07:50:15 AM
scholes18...u didn't break any rules, neither did the mods. if you did break any of the rules, you still think you'd still be around?



once you start acting like a know-it-all, make sure your posts are clean of any error, else you risk being bashed to hell and back. that's an unspoken rule in ANY forum.



on the topic of dual cpus...anyone know where i can purchase really small psus? like those that are used on rackmounted servers? want to play around with dual psu mods with one/two of those.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: bryan on August 08, 2003, 08:08:40 AM
wasted_brain, mahal yan. yung half size PSU's para sa redundant setup on standard cases? saw one at villman a long time ago (back when we were helping organize gameworld) di ko alam kung magkano na ngayon. villman dun sa blue building sa makati.



scholes18,



sa susunod pre, wag ganyan ang entra. bago ka kasi. makibagay muna bago humirit. punta ka sa EB para magkakilala tayo lahat personally. mas maganda ang relationship sa forum ng bawa't isa pag nakipag-inuman na at nakakain na ng sisig ni doc.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 08, 2003, 08:31:58 AM
putting finishing touches on my article in time for teh eb....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 08, 2003, 08:47:47 AM
these should be interesting reading:



http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/atx2_1.pdf (http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/atx2_1.pdf)

http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/atx2_03p1.pdf (http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx/atx2_03p1.pdf)

http://www.formfactors.org/developer/ specs/atx/atx12vPSDGV1.pdf (http://www.formfactors.org/developer/ specs/atx/atx12vPSDGV1.pdf)

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/MD2/productbrief.pdf (http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/MD2/productbrief.pdf)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on August 08, 2003, 09:26:09 AM
Quote
I'm certified though by Comptia for PC repair and not really a big deal


so, just repair?...how about phyics? =)



Quote
Even if you have a dual PSU case,PSU's get hot,so you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU.And if you dont have a dual PSU case,what will your system look like?Probably like crap and sloppy


really? how? maybe you really need to learn about thermodynamics

crap?...nah!...i don't think so...sloppy?...neither!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on August 08, 2003, 09:33:01 AM
Quote
Im not bragging about my parts,just posting the specs of my system that doesnt shutdown due to PSU failure in w/c i used all 7 molex connectors


sorry...most of us are just being indigenious. for me, i have no reason to buy good performing but expensive psu's if i can use my old psu in the garage...heck, i like the thrill of it!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Scholes18 on August 08, 2003, 09:47:53 AM
Claw,whats ur probs?sorry i'm not into physics cause i'm bad at it and specially not into thermodynamics cause thats too deep for me to understand. things like entropy,motions blah,blah cause its out of topic on this thread.(http://cssprays.4t.com/sprayz/garisnipe.jpg)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on August 08, 2003, 09:55:36 AM
Quote
so you'll just bring more hotter airflow in your system by having 2 PSU


is heat issue not part of thermodynamics?



i have nothing againts you...but i am againts your statement that dual psu would bring more hotter airaflow...as well as your statement that having 2 psu will make a system look crappy...well, unless if you could prove that to me...coz i will prove to you that dual psu setup works well w/ me...that is after my mod project...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ogre on August 08, 2003, 09:58:19 AM
Scholes18,



you're locking horns among the people who actually have knowledge on the subject(not only do they know it, they've done it). you're in way over your head. most of all, people post in this thread to share information that actually helps, if you're not here to help, you've got nothing to post.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: wasted_brain on August 08, 2003, 10:07:13 AM
bryan, thanks for the info. i guess small psus are out of the question then.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ogre on August 08, 2003, 10:13:45 AM
wasted_brain,

i saw some small psus at sos (sm centerpoint), 145w, yung mahabang klase from branded desktops
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Scholes18 on August 08, 2003, 10:16:58 AM
Claw,i really didnt remembered to be honest,which{MY BAD}the 5 & quarter bay inside the case unless you have a full tower ATX case.What I really meant by that,as Ral tried to correct and insulted me{I agree}, w/c is kool w/me,is that PSUs also heats up when overloaded.right RAL?I apologize if I offended you or any body thats doing mod projects and tried to mislead some of you w/c i think i didnt anyway,cause i know you guys know what ur doing .I know this shouldnt supposed to be on this thread but PM to Claw.Just keep it up dude.Bryan,ty for inviting an a**h*** like me but i dont know where EB is at.If its a place there,I cant cause i'm out of the country.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: alikishi on August 08, 2003, 10:21:25 AM
i'm sorry but your grammar really is out of line.  ang hirap intindihin ang post mo
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Klay on August 08, 2003, 10:30:00 AM
Quote
i'm also a+ certified and i know my stuff.And also to Dean,"ngayon lang ako nakakita ng 1.24GHz na memory ah..."thats a shortcut to 1024mb if you know what i mean.2 sticks of 512 ddr2700 that is.




wow 1.24 eh... kahit yata sa GHz natin pagusapan yang memory mo eh mali pa rin pagkakasabi mo. sabi mo 1024? 1.24 = 1,240 tama ba?



talaga ikaw oows! ... a+ ka kase eh... pero alam mo a+ i think you're ok, medyo napapraning ka lang kse bago ka nga. punta ka sa eb at makihalubilo samin para cool na lahat ng psu sa mundo at talagang maging a+ ka in my book. ;p
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on August 08, 2003, 10:32:11 AM
nah...for get it bro...i apologie too for my attitude =) medyo (or not just medyo) ayaw ko lang ung idea dun sa isang post mo (about crappy & heat issue)...anyway, i was never offended w/ your statements...but my project was...hehehe...you're cool w/ me naman eh.. =)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Klay on August 08, 2003, 10:35:29 AM
{ow man} [(YOR) awt {op di kantri?} (dat) jast sax...] sheet.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 08, 2003, 10:36:08 AM
Quote
wasted_brain,

i saw some small psus at sos (sm centerpoint), 145w, yung mahabang klase from branded desktops




is this the one by astech and used for ibm pc's? i have one right now, it is a low profile psu, the smallest psu i have come acrros is a e-machine atx psu used to power a cyrix330 socket 7 setup...psu was made in korea...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Scholes18 on August 08, 2003, 10:36:21 AM
Salamat Klay,Claw but need to prep dinner na cause bossing will be here in an hour.Later dudes.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 08, 2003, 11:22:37 AM
Okay Scholes18...



Lets forgot about all this and start over. What fun is a message baord without a little friction.



Hi I'm ral (resident hothead), welcome to PPC.



Quote
on the topic of dual cpus...anyone know where i can purchase really small psus? like those that are used on rackmounted servers? want to play around with dual psu mods with one/two of those.




I think PCTrends may have some of those. Would be expensive though, but the ones they have would be hot swappable to boot :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ogre on August 08, 2003, 11:23:23 AM
joan2



Quote
is this the one by astech and used for ibm pc's?




yep, i think they're the same
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 08, 2003, 11:27:28 AM
Does someone remember who mods those psu's so they are as large as a CD-ROM Drive?



.I probably don't have enough stuff to need that much juice... .might want to try it out just for the heck of it...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ogre on August 08, 2003, 11:41:39 AM
Quote
Does someone remember who mods those psu's so they are as large as a CD-ROM Drive?




ral, it's joan2/tony at TPC
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: wasted_brain on August 08, 2003, 02:05:08 PM
yep, tony/joan2 does the psu mod thing.



thanks all for the input on where to get the small psus. will be checking out sm centerpoint soon. will prolly call my friend in hmr and ask again.



ral...will be checking out pc trends' site. any idea how much these baby's go for retail?



Quote
Hi I'm ral (resident hothead), welcome to PPC.





i thought tnt2 was the resident hothead? :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 08, 2003, 02:39:39 PM
@ wasted brain:



re: dual PSU - PM'ed you



re: TNT2... well if he wants the title back, he will have to fight for it.



@ Orge:



Kewl... will look him up than. Any idea how much?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ral on August 08, 2003, 02:42:42 PM
Cant seem to PM will PM later???
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 09, 2003, 07:23:21 AM
when someone asks me, why do you mod psus? i answer, because i can!!! lol, heard this one somewhere before....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: draganta on August 09, 2003, 07:31:19 AM
lol @ sir joan2...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: wasted_brain on August 09, 2003, 11:24:38 AM
Quote
when someone asks me, why do you mod psus? i answer, because i can!!! lol, heard this one somewhere before....




that was a good one. but seriously though, few people have the guts to modify psus.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: HjEaNmReYs on August 10, 2003, 01:36:32 AM
ibang clase ka talaga sir joan galing mo you should deserve an award or something. cgura dapat ng magtayo ng hal of fame ppc, meron naba?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 10, 2003, 07:49:47 AM
onther one asked me, why are you giving away information about psu modding? and my answer is, because i can never give what i do not have!!! lol, now where did i hear this one?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: drews03 on August 11, 2003, 08:17:01 PM
joan2,

      What are the common indications/symptoms if a single PSU can't handle the load aside from overheating?? Can a generic PSU accomodate the ff; loads:??

       1.) DVD Rom

       2.) CD Writer

       3.) Floppy drive

       4.) Seagate 40GB 7200 rpm

       5.) Ethernet LAN PCI card

       6.) Inno 3D GF4 MX440 128ddr 8x w/ TV out

       7.) 2x fans, 1 for each intake and exhaust outlets.

       8.) Thermaltake Volcano 11 Xaser Edition



         BTW, my mobo is MSIKT4V and processor is AXP 1800+ @ 166x11.5=1.9GHz. Any suggestions are highly recommended. thanks!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dean on August 11, 2003, 09:59:16 PM
an unstable system could be a sign of a weak power supply specially if you start stressing or using all the components of your system at the same time.



i dunno if this is a good enough but short stress test... but you can try this:



do all at the same time:

play an audio cd

run 3dmark2001 or 3dmark03

run prime95



see what happens...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: abused_and_confused on August 13, 2003, 03:26:06 PM
sir tony!



am planning to use a 2nd psu to power the fans. kasi napansin ko after shutting down the pc, the procs seem to be hotter (using hardcano) - dahil off na nga mga fans.



can you device a way to make me use a 2nd psu na perfect for the 5.25" tray and then can still run even after i shut-down the pc?



paano nag-ooff yun? does it turn on when i turn on the 1st? kung may faq ka, ok sana.



:D
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: vshadow30 on August 14, 2003, 10:00:07 AM
cool thread huh?



well..i'll just add some other ways to connect 2 psu in parallel and still maintain a separate circuit (that is, prevent the forming of current loops), in the sense that each PSU is helping each other in taking up the load thus putting less stress on the components...



first of is to choose the master psu (if ever, the one with the higher watt rating)...and have a common ground for both circuits...



using two diodes (50amps rating or more), connect the 5V output of the first psu to the first diode anode then connect the 5V output of the second psu to the second diode's anode. After finishing the first step...connect both of the diode's cathode. This will now be your dual psu 5V output. you can connect a parallel 100uF/16V electrolytic capacitor to further reduce ripple...



since its the 5V rail and the 3.3V rail that are mostly stressed, i would suggest that you only parallel connect in this voltages...



The diodes make sure that the current goes to the load and not on the other psu... If the diode that was used has a voltage drop of .3V or more, it is necessary to adjust the 5V output at the tl494 to compensate for the voltage drop at the diode.



that's it..you now have two psu sharing the load at 5V and 3.3V...



by the way...you can use the secondary psu's 12v to power up the case fans....



thanks!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on August 15, 2003, 05:37:08 PM
vshadow30, have you tried it???
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cLaw on August 15, 2003, 07:12:45 PM
50-50 ba ung sharing load? read some article similar to that pero nagbabago lagi ung load balancing....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on August 16, 2003, 11:20:05 AM
Just sent tony 2x300W lan lon and 2x250W generic PSU... hope he could parallel it in one PSU casing... astig yun, 600W psu bwahahahaha!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 17, 2003, 05:02:51 PM
sorry, been out for almost a week, and my rig was infected by virus so i am using a public computer,drews03 , as what dean has said, an unstable system is surely a sign of weak psu, there are some generics that are good, but you have to find it, a lan-lon300w is one....i have two from bathman, and will try to parallel them.....more on this later....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 17, 2003, 05:11:23 PM
Quote
well..i'll just add some other ways to connect 2 psu in parallel and still maintain a separate circuit (that is, prevent the forming of current loops), in the sense that each PSU is helping each other in taking up the load thus putting less stress on the components...



first of is to choose the master psu (if ever, the one with the higher watt rating)...and have a common ground for both circuits...



using two diodes (50amps rating or more), connect the 5V output of the first psu to the first diode anode then connect the 5V output of the second psu to the second diode's anode. After finishing the first step...connect both of the diode's cathode. This will now be your dual psu 5V output. you can connect a parallel 100uF/16V electrolytic capacitor to further reduce ripple...



since its the 5V rail and the 3.3V rail that are mostly stressed, i would suggest that you only parallel connect in this voltages...



The diodes make sure that the current goes to the load and not on the other psu... If the diode that was used has a voltage drop of .3V or more, it is necessary to adjust the 5V output at the tl494 to compensate for the voltage drop at the diode.



that's it..you now have two psu sharing the load at 5V and 3.3V...





this is indeed posible, the diodes isolate the two supplies so that circulating currents can be avoided....the only drawback is that diodes drop at least .7volts to 1 volt on high current flow so that your 5volts can drop to 4volts!!! another way is to use mosfets as the on resistance of mosfets is quite low, about .01ohms at 50amps.....load sharing will depend on each power supplie's internal impedance and the terminal voltage which have to be identical to have a 50-50 load sharing....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 18, 2003, 06:27:11 PM
abused_and_confused ,

you can add a 2nd psu, please call me 6438957......
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on August 21, 2003, 12:42:51 PM
Sir Tony,

 

I have been reading the thread re 12 volt rails going up to 13 somthing.



Pero what if i am not into overclocking and yet the 12v rail is still 13 somthing!?! Any Solutions before having the PSU modified by you that is... =)



d'specs:

Athon 1700

CDRW

CD

2x 128mb

G4 mx440 64mb

Dynamo 350w dual fan



planning on doing fan and lighitng mods panaman sa PC ko...=(



sir i also have a question re-UV light PM'ed you!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 21, 2003, 05:20:43 PM
Quote
I have been reading the thread re 12 volt rails going up to 13 somthing.



Pero what if i am not into overclocking and yet the 12v rail is still 13 somthing!?! Any Solutions before having the PSU modified by you that is... =)





an increasing 12volt rail is an indication of a psu working very hard, the 5volt rail is being bled with high current....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on August 21, 2003, 06:23:38 PM
does this mean if i put fans or lights which are going to be hooked up to the 12v rail shut down na abot ko!?!



PERO with my setup why am i consuming so much!? compared to other setups sa thread.



i got a 1 cdrw, 1 cd-rom, 1 hdd, thats it.



no fans except sa CPU at Video Card. PSU got 2 fans built in.

would you know why the 12v rail is so high at this setup?



btw yung mobo ko is ECS k7s5a v3. w/ AXP 1700 not Oc'd.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on August 21, 2003, 06:27:01 PM
munkhee,



afaik, Dynamo 350W isnt a good PSU... search mo threads, dami negative feedbacks nito...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on August 21, 2003, 06:41:13 PM
hmmm thanks bath will do...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on August 21, 2003, 06:48:48 PM
bathman OONGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grabe...Sagwa nga ng Dynamo! Dirt Cheap Price = Dirt Cheap Quality. Kaya pala nagkakaganto yung system ko. labo. hmmm



makes me double think my modding projects on this PSU!

badtrip.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: motion55 on August 22, 2003, 09:26:08 AM
Dynamo = generic PSU + extra fan
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on August 23, 2003, 03:18:38 PM
joan2,

the modded PSU 5V rail accdg to the 8RDA+ BIOS

ranges from 4.62 to 4.68v.  Haven't stress tested

the PC yet 1800+@1.963Ghz. Puro browsing and

watching TV lang.



Vcore @1.52 default setting

Vdd @1.58 default

Vdimm @2.61 default
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 23, 2003, 06:18:41 PM
Quote
the modded PSU 5V rail accdg to the 8RDA+ BIOS

ranges from 4.62 to 4.68v. Haven't stress tested

the PC yet 1800+@1.963Ghz. Puro browsing and

watching TV lang.





dmm reading of the 5 volt indicated 5.2volts, if you are not having stability issues, then i gyess it's ok, other wise we may have to readjust the trimpot to get a higher initial 5volts out....your psu is endowed with such a trimpot...



on the other hand, a reading of 4.68-4062=0.06 is an excellent figure meaning your psu has a low internal resistance.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on August 23, 2003, 06:53:00 PM
No observed problems with my current load.



I'll have to replace the fans with Vantec Stealths, though.

As it is right now the PSU fans are noisier than the 92mm case

and 120mm proc fans combined.



This set-up is not yet situated in it's actual case.

Still experimenting with better air cooling.  I don't like the 47-49C

proc temps I get by just browsing!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jOn2oNe on August 24, 2003, 12:22:49 AM
joan2, i have recently an Enermax 300W PSU with +3.3 28A, +5 30A and +12 15A. If you mod my PSU, How much amperes will it increase each rail?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 25, 2003, 01:13:29 PM
Quote
joan2, i have recently an Enermax 300W PSU with +3.3 28A, +5 30A and +12 15A. If you mod my PSU, How much amperes will it increase each rail?




modding your psu will mean replacing rectifiers with higher value ones...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on August 25, 2003, 02:13:59 PM
sir what can you suggest (pwera palit PSU =) para mas stable yung 12+ rail ko and get it within spec?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 26, 2003, 06:24:19 PM
getting it, the 12v within spec shoulld never be an end in itself, you have to look at your systemand answer a basic question, and that is, is your system having stability problems? because if not, then you have no cause for concern...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on August 26, 2003, 06:27:37 PM
hmmmm... ok...



btw last question would you recommend me putting up mods which would use 12v? 5v? planning on buying CCFL kse...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 29, 2003, 07:22:40 AM
yes, by all means...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on September 01, 2003, 10:39:31 AM
joan2,

I've almost finalized the plans for my case project.

Are you still familiar with the dimensions of my two PSUs?



I now have an idea on where the PSU will be positioned.

How low a profile can be achieved for each PSU if they are

separated?  I will require the lowest profile achievable with

the PSUs side by side instead of on top of each other.



I understand the resulting case/s will be longer.

That's exactly how I would want them.  Also, I will require

two power lines that turn on with the PSU switch independent

of the ATX soft off switch for fans.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on September 01, 2003, 01:38:59 PM
less approx 110mm...we can switch the fans easy.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on September 01, 2003, 02:35:17 PM
110mm?  Hindi ba buong height na yun ng PSU casing?

I need the profile as low as possible. I can have the case

especially fabricated incorporating the mosfet heatsinks



can you sketch your ideas?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on September 01, 2003, 05:48:22 PM
what i mean is that if separated, one psu can occupy a height of a regular psu, the other one of course is an at and can go lower, are you planning to mount them on the plexiglass casings?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on September 02, 2003, 09:36:18 AM
I see.  Can the ATX PSU be lower - about the height

of the transformer block?  Both PSUs will not be mounted

but used as a removeable swiveling stand behind the case

to prop it up for mobile display.



Removed and set to the side when at home.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on September 02, 2003, 01:47:48 PM
i am afraid not, there is a vertically mounted board inside, so the lowest we can attain is the height of that board...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on September 04, 2003, 08:53:21 AM
can that PCB be relocated and set horizontally?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on September 04, 2003, 01:25:17 PM
probably yes....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on September 04, 2003, 02:27:53 PM
great!  I'll finalize the mobo case details and have it done.

i'll check the PSU when I get home and bring it to you next week

for modding.  I'll only need the base plate to determine the footprint

of the PSU and its length.  I'll have the complete details of the plan

when I bring you the PSU.



thanks
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: yaj555 on September 15, 2003, 11:38:21 PM
im desperate...



+3.3 = 2.72



+5.00 = 4.81



+12.00 = 12.52



-12.00 = -12.60



-5.00 = -5.39



i have a 300 watt dynamo PSU, an axp 1800+ tbred b(jiuhb dut3c) running at 2.0ghz (10x200fsb).. getting random reboots (well sometimes, in the afternoon)



i really think my psu is holding me back, cos i wanna push my axp to 2.2-2.3ghz, but it just wouldnt boot at that speed



how much would it cost me if i had my PSU modded, and what are my options? a 600watt from 2 PSUs sounds nice ^__^
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on September 16, 2003, 07:31:08 AM
you can bring your psu to me for modding....



i found this site on the web..interesting and informative...

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=fb54b3ea9ed887d3c90c51a1e6a69838&threadid=58333&perpage=30&pagenumber=1 (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=fb54b3ea9ed887d3c90c51a1e6a69838&threadid=58333&perpage=30&pagenumber=1)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Majorem on September 30, 2003, 02:05:09 PM
What is Sir Tony's handle sa PPC? Is it possible to mod my 300W Enermax power supply and turn it into a 350W PSU?



I think I would like to to mod this baby!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: chaos on September 30, 2003, 02:09:13 PM
Sir Tony ~ joan2



:)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: abused_and_confused on September 30, 2003, 02:09:37 PM
majorem

it's joan2.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on September 30, 2003, 05:54:31 PM
joan2 (pinoypc/pinoydvd/diyaudio) and tony(tpc) are one and the same...

majorem, i would be honored to mod your enermax 300watt psu, fyi i have a huge stock of parts that may be good for one year of modding....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: balong3030 on October 02, 2003, 01:21:13 PM
I have a G4 128mb nvidia. and whenever i play games ngrerestart siya. bago na board ko, and pinacheck ko na yung card, no probs found. is it because of my Psu, mine is the stock ones together with the case. 300w.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ogre on October 02, 2003, 01:28:56 PM
mistar joan2,



i bought a busted psu, you think you can revive it? will bring it to your place when i return from mindanao.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 02, 2003, 05:49:43 PM
please do...thanks...details please...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 02, 2003, 05:51:36 PM
which case is that and what is the psu name, please...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: tigar on October 04, 2003, 01:33:45 PM
I have a Delta 280w with a proprietary connector setup (combination of at and atx). Can you copy this setup and transform a 350w atx psu? Baka kasi masira yung delta ko wala na ko makita replacement psu.

The delta is for a dual p3 slot1 board by Acer and used by a Fujitsu server. Also im planning to use an Astec psu from a macintosh as a 2nd psu just to power the raid scsi drives, how do i compute total wattage of the drives and compare it with wattage output of the Astec,  kung kaya niya. Currently the delta is driving the pc and 3 raid drives, 1 cdrom, 1 cdrw, all scsi. I plan to add more drives and fans.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 04, 2003, 06:17:16 PM
yes i can, delta is a good brand, very good quality, looking inside never fails to excite me, i wonder why they do not come out with high powered ones, like hec or enermax, tsk...tsk...tsk...please send me more info or you can call me at 6438957...thaniks...tony
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 06, 2003, 11:22:57 PM
you may find this link helpfull:

[/quote] ]http://www.tipidpc.com/items/view.php?id=47555 (http://www.tipidpc.com/items/view.php?id=47555[quote)
Quote
[/url]
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: one4u2nb on October 09, 2003, 01:48:59 AM
@Joan2,



These are my voltages:



Voltages: [Vdd: 1.632V, Vcore: 1.664V, Vdimm: 2.752V, +5.00: 5.053V, +12.00: 12.16V, -12.00: -12.519V, -5.00: -5.292V]



It seems to me that everythings is a ok.  But I've always wondered what's the purpose of the -12 and -5?  and my -12 seems kinda high...



Can you enlighten me a little bit on this if you dont mind...



Thanks in advance...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 09, 2003, 02:18:17 PM
intel specs fir the -5 and -12 volt rails are +/-10%, so your rails are ok...i am not very sure for what those neg voltages are, but i know some semiconductor devices need -volts at input to make sure they are off, when they need to be off.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on October 12, 2003, 07:21:14 AM
this isn't exactly about PSU but a peripheral.  some people came over

yesterday to our house claiming they're on a special promo tour of

their product: Commander line of Electronic Energy Saver and Protector



Accdg to the person it works on the principle that AC doesn't always mean 220V and it's supposed to prevent excess power from coming

into your circuits {supposedly the power it doesn't let through isn't

recorder by your meter - hence the savings}



They require you to submit your latest electric bill.  Only 500Php bills

and above are allowed. They will report your meter to Meralco that you

have the device installed because of the supposed 30%-40% savings.

Also, they will monitor your consumption - it has to go down in two

months or your money back!  This, of course, is whiel you're using

approximately the same load.



the devices are warranted for 5 years with lifetime free service.

the cheapest device sell for 5,500. Under promo it's only 3,700

It's rated at 2,400W and you plug it into an outlet then you plug your

appliances to it. Like an AVR but only half the size of a regular PSU.

It's equipped with a 10Amp fuse and does some regulating, surge

suppression and spike arresting.  The thing is very heavy and riveted.



They also have larger models that connect directly to your breaker

box.  Are these things worth it?  Heck if I can save it's okay but it

seems too good to be true.



I will be inquiring the company to Meralco soon.  The person left his

phone number, name and cellphone and will call me.  I'd like to confirm

the truth to all their claims first.  I was asked to front 500Php right there

and then to reserve for the promo price of 3,700 or it's 5,500 from their

shops.



I said no I didn't have the money.  It smelled phoney fromt he beginning

some people in our neighborhood had outright bought the demo unit and

registered with them.  If these same people come into your area or if

you have this in your home please update us here.  Thanks.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: motion55 on October 12, 2003, 07:42:14 AM
This sounds like those power factor correcting devices you see being advertised on those infomercials. These PF correcting devices may reduce current consumption and the apparent power consumption. However, the electric meters are more sophisticated devices and measure real power consumption.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: munkhee on October 12, 2003, 09:53:08 AM
Quote
http://www.pinoypc.net/tehboard/viewthread.php?thread=18528




Sir remember my query na ang taas ng 12volt rail ko (appx 13.34)

and i asked if i can still mod with this kind of load... i did..



Conclusion...good  kasi biglang pasok sa spec! just wanted to ask baket ganun?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on October 12, 2003, 10:36:39 AM
dulber,

bili ka tapos testing mo... pag effective bili din ako ahihihihi ;)...



dito naman sa amin iba, buy 2 take 1 free... pero curious talaga ako kung effective... nakakaduda eh...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Ulysses on October 12, 2003, 11:12:12 AM
OT to Dulber: I think your billing will say it all. My friend bought one and attached it to his water pump, he was able to save an average of 300 pesos on the pump alone.



Pero duda ako dun sa 500 peso reservation fee. Nagbayad ka na wala kang nakuha except for the promise of a brighter tomorrow:)



I think there are 2 or 3 distributors of that here.



May nagpunta din sa amin na nag-offer ng ganyan; kaya lang dalawang malaking lalaki na gusto pumasok sa bahay namin para ma-demo.



Hindi ko pinapasok baka ma-hold-up ako:p
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on October 12, 2003, 11:18:45 AM
OT: Ulysses,

effective ba talaga??? last bill ko is 16K, hmm magkano kaya ibaba non???
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 12, 2003, 04:24:45 PM
dulber,

i smell scam...beware!!!, how can meralco monitor your consumption when all they do is read your meter periodicaly, maybe this is it. industrial consumers can benefit from power factor corrections since they have the most number of inductive loads. afaik, meralco penalizes consumers which has a power factor 0f les than 80% while bonus is given in terms of rebates to those with high power factors. in the house, we have the water pumps, aircon and refs, but these are not that big consumers, except for the ref, we use our appliances sparingly!! so i can not imagine how they can do it....this must be a scammm!!!



if you really want to imporve your power factor, just hook up a capacitor rated for 220volts ac, and this will take care of it, and you don't have to spend thousands....

here is a brief theory about power factor:

1. a power factor of one(1) means load is purely resistive, meaning the inductive and capacitive reactance canceled out...

2. any inductance added to the load increases line current, this add burden to the power generation...

3. to cancel the effect of inductive reactance, capacitors arre added to the line, at the right time, and correct amount.

4. any excess capacitance on the line also increases line current, so

5. just the right amount is added...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 12, 2003, 04:55:23 PM
BathMaN,

tapos ko na sir yung 2 250 watt psu mo, for pickup na....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on October 12, 2003, 05:27:11 PM
joan2,

di ko alam pumunta ng pasig :(



Quote
if you really want to imporve your power factor, just hook up a capacitor rated for 220volts ac, and this will take care of it, and you don't have to spend thousands....

here is a brief theory about power factor:

1. a power factor of one(1) means load is purely resistive, meaning the inductive and capacitive reactance canceled out...

2. any inductance added to the load increases line current, this add burden to the power generation...

3. to cancel the effect of inductive reactance, capacitors arre added to the line, at the right time, and correct amount.

4. any excess capacitance on the line also increases line current, so

5. just the right amount is added...



how much aabutin ganito? pede kaya i-apply for window type aircon??? masakit sa bulsa electric bill... kung hindi lang masama magnakaw ng kuryente grrr... hehehehehe...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on October 12, 2003, 06:59:06 PM
maraming salamat sa mga input ninyo; napamangha ako bukod sa

matitipid eh yung pangako na imo monitor mismo nung agent yung bill

mo ng meralco at ibabalik ang pera mo kung hindi epektibo sa loob ng

dalawang buwan!



marami siyang binigay na mga nag benefit na daw sa aparato nila.

bukas ng umaga text ko si kolokoy tanong ko pangalan ng kumpanya

tapos itatawag ko sa Merlaco {ayon kse sa agent ire report nila sa

Meralco ang meter number ko para hindi magtaka sa ibababa ng bill ko}



It does sound too good to be true most likely it isn't.

Nakakahinayang din naman kasi yung matitipid sa kuryente kung totoo

ang claim ng aparato nila.  Lalo pa this Christmas season mag upgrade

ako to a 29" Sony Wega para sa home theater kuno ko, he he he....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 12, 2003, 08:29:11 PM
that is generaly the case.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: BaThMaN on October 13, 2003, 09:54:44 AM
dulber,



does it sound like these??:



"wait if you order now, you'll get 50% discount! and for the first 10 customers, you'll get these absolutely free!"



(http://www.pinoypc.net/images/smileys/jp_thrilled.gif)

hehehehe...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on October 13, 2003, 10:12:46 AM
BaThMaN, buti sana kung ganon ka laki ang discounts and kadami ang

freebies. Just talked with Meralco customer support, the CSO replied.

"Sir, Meralco has received various inquiries regarding these products.

Meralco does not endorse nor support these products in any way."



I asked if I would violate my service agreement with Meralco, the

reply was inconclusive that using the product is entirely my prerogative

and that they only base what they bill from the end metering reading.



The company name is Alja Market Link.  Hmmm... ano nga kaya?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: motion55 on October 13, 2003, 11:49:08 AM
For a home consumer of electricity, correcting the power factor will not result in savings of hundreds of pesos (tens of pesos perhaps). If it does result in this much savings (hundres of pesos), then there is something wrong with the electric meters because this means they are reading power consumption incorrectly.



In other words, if these devices work as advertised, then they may have uncovered a problem with these meters which could result in refunds far bigger than what Meralco is paying now.



BTW, the PC's PSUs have capacitors connected to the powerline via bridge rectifiers. This helps correct the PF caused by inductive loads.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: PhilKal on October 13, 2003, 01:41:41 PM
This must be the longest thread I ever read...



Sir Tony,



I'm planning to upgrade by system in the next month or two (I usually upgrade every 2 - 3 years), and this year I was given a new Video card... problem is, after reading the manual it mentioned that it needs to be connected to the PSU, so I'm contemplating if one PSU will be sufficient...



Here is the system I planing to set up:



Pentium IV 2.4C with HTT

Asus P4S800 mobo

Twin Moss 512MB DDR PC3200

ATI Radeon ALL-IN-WONDER 9800

1x CDRW

1x DVDRom

1x Floppy Drive

1x USB 2.0 Hub



I'm a component fanatic, so in the long run I'll likely be attaching more stuff via USB for easy access... so I'm trying to take that into account as well so that I won't have to change the PSU haveway thru its lifetime...



I was initially going to get a 475 Watt Hec PSU Model: 350LD-T(from risingsun), but after calculating the costs the rig itself was way over-budget... I personally don't like spending more than 20k to upgrade my rig, so I'm trying to bring it down...



My questions are...



If I just use a regular 350 watt PSU (most likely generic) what's the biggest problem I'll run into...  Would you recommend I just spend the extra cash for the 475 Watt Hec PSU?  Is that a good brand/model?  If I opt to go with a dual PSU setup how difficult is it to setup?  I've no experience in electronics, nor modding... I can put together a computer system from scratch, hardware software and all... I've also fixed a couple of CPUs, mostly by cleaning the contact points and making sure the cables are all in order...  but as far as the inner workings of a PSU or some electronics are concerned I'm just a newbie...



Thanks!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: execute on October 13, 2003, 02:16:54 PM
hi tony, i have a question regarding my powersupply rating.

speedFan and all other monitoring software reports that my +3.3V is rated at 4.08V and never changes. what can be wrong here? first i am under the impression that this is an error because otherwise i would have gotten a new set already by now :) which can be causing the error? the PSU, motherboard or processor?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 13, 2003, 04:40:53 PM
q:If I just use a regular 350 watt PSU (most likely generic) what's the biggest problem I'll run into... Would you recommend I just spend the extra cash for the 475 Watt Hec PSU? Is that a good brand/model? If I opt to go with a dual PSU setup how difficult is it to setup? I've no experience in electronics, nor modding... I can put together a computer system from scratch, hardware software and all... I've also fixed a couple of CPUs, mostly by cleaning the contact points and making sure the cables are all in order... but as far as the inner workings of a PSU or some electronics are concerned I'm just a newbie...



a: sinceyou will be running p42.4ghz/radeon9800, i am almost sure a generic 350watt won't do..maybe if we mod that psu and assign it for mobo only, then anoher 300/350 generic,moded for videocard and pheripherals,then that could work...



q:hi tony, i have a question regarding my powersupply rating.

speedFan and all other monitoring software reports that my +3.3V is rated at 4.08V and never changes. what can be wrong here? first i am under the impression that this is an error because otherwise i would have gotten a new set already by now :) which can be causing the error? the PSU, motherboard or processor?



a: is your v i/o configurable i bios? on my abit board, i can set is as high as 3.7v, maybe that is the reading you were seing...a reading using dc voltmeter will give you the actual reading....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 13, 2003, 04:48:58 PM
dulber,

that is a scam......have nothing to do with it, you will be glad that you did...

ditto, BathMaN, i remember you asked me about that,keep away from them...if you want, hook up a moto running capacitor to your line, after the fusebox, start with a 100uf cap, then monitor for your next billing cycle...see what happens..
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on October 15, 2003, 08:15:02 AM
joan2, everyone,



maraming salamat. didn't go through with it.

now that's another thing off the deal with it to be done with list!!!



joan2, pag nakaluwag ako, pangako, dalhin ko na PSU sa iyo for

my planned modifications.  Medyo mabigat pa load these weeks

and tight din budget.  Hindi na aabot case project ko sa EB kaya

post ko na lang pag natapos dito sa forums.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: SirLaw11 on October 15, 2003, 08:27:43 AM
joan2,



Mag-papamod ako sayo ng generic 400watts, sa tingin mo kakayanin kaya niyan yung rig ko ngayon. Right now i am using 550w True Control ng Antec kaso i want to keep the antec for my upcoming rig and use this generic 400w for this setup after na ma modify mo.



Here's the specs:



AMD Barton 2800+ will OC

NF7-S Ver 2

2 x 512MB PC3500

ATI 9800 Pro

TDK 420N DVD+R

Lite On CD-R

4 x 120GB HD

Koolance WC

FLoppy Drive
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on October 15, 2003, 10:38:32 AM
Sirlaw11, iuuwi mo mga yan dito?  Wawaw! EB tayo sa inyo ulit!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 15, 2003, 11:38:21 AM
SirLaw,

may i know the brand label of you 400 psu? i have yet to see the insides to know for sure....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: SirLaw11 on October 16, 2003, 05:27:19 AM
dulber,



Yes iuuwi ko yang rig na yan at iba pa =) Sa December 26 ako uuwi kung loloobin. Sure walang problema sa EB. I already know a good and big place to accomodate all the menyeks = )



joan2,



walang brand yung mabili kong PS sa computer show. Pero heto yung specs niya. I know the specs look like sh.t and come to think of it, it's rated 400W



   +5            -5                +12             -12           +3.3            +5VSB



  22.0A        .5A               6.0A             .8A           14.0A           1.5A
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: nhald on October 16, 2003, 01:59:41 PM
sir joan2,



magkakaproblema ba ko kung yung psu palitan ko totally ng acrylic housing? meaning kunin ko yung laman nya tapos ilipat ko sa DIY na acrylic housing. of course with the necessary cooling system installed.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 17, 2003, 08:25:02 PM
Quote
magkakaproblema ba ko kung yung psu palitan ko totally ng acrylic housing? meaning kunin ko yung laman nya tapos ilipat ko sa DIY na acrylic housing. of course with the necessary cooling system installed.




the metalic shells are part of the intel specs for psu, that is to safeguard against emi radiations emanating from your psu...you can try if you want...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 17, 2003, 08:31:25 PM
SirLaw11,

looks like your 400watt psu has only around 140w combined rating for the 5&3.3volt rail, a true 400watter, should have at the very least 200 watts combined rating.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: SirLaw11 on October 18, 2003, 05:18:12 AM
So mga magkano ang gagastusin ko para tumakbo siya ng tama para sa rig ko = )
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 18, 2003, 07:45:50 AM
i have to see it first, after i changed the elctronics to higher rated ones, it will be the transformer that will limit performance so i have to see it to make a better judgement....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jayzZEe on October 22, 2003, 11:06:44 AM
pm'd u, sir tony
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: RaP on October 29, 2003, 05:24:47 PM
sir joan2,



bakit ganun .. kahit mobo+proc+vc+mem lang ang naka-plug sa power supply, 12.8v+ pa rin ang 12.v rail



na-try ko yung stock tornado psu, mas malala .. 13v and 12v rail nya



baka pa-mod ko na lang sa yo sir o bili na lang ng 475w



hec 350w nga pala ang psu ko
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on October 29, 2003, 08:53:57 PM
are you having reboot problems? if not then you have nothing to worry about....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: razor1911 on November 12, 2003, 12:32:37 AM
kapag ba nagrereboot ng kusa, psu ang problem? ganun kasi nangyayari sakin kapag nakakabit yung isa kong seagate na hard disk, pero kapag wala siya ok naman... pagka-on ng computer reboot ng reboot yung pc, tapos may clicking sound ang hdisk. pero working pa yung hdisk
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on November 12, 2003, 05:17:46 PM
yes, because your psu is laboring because of the added load....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on November 18, 2003, 08:34:59 AM
joan2,

remember the PSU job I submitted before?

Would you remember if it had separate circuits for each line voltage?

If not could it be made that way or will it complicate matters?



I'm available today you can call me at 8480777 local 290 or 8481809

Kapag hindi uubra yung pair na yun pa mod ko na 350W Enermax ko

ikabit natin yung better PSU ng unang set sa Enermax to support my

12V loads!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Zero One on November 29, 2003, 12:47:07 PM
sir tony i would like to know what does -12.00 and -5.00 stands for?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on November 29, 2003, 02:39:16 PM
i am not mistaken some logic devices require negative voltages at their gates (inputs) to ensure that they are really off, logic 0 when they need to be off....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Zero One on December 02, 2003, 11:48:20 PM
sir tony i'm a beginner on this aspect, but i'd love do this dual power supply thing cuz right now my bugdet is limited for a greater wattage branded PSU. Can you give me specs and details on HOW TO build it? Thanks... your presence here makes alot of difference.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on December 03, 2003, 03:52:26 PM
Zero One,

i have 2 articles written, you can come to the house, bring a recordable cd and you can copy those articles...pm me on how to go to my house, or call me at 6438957 if you have the time...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Zero One on December 04, 2003, 01:57:45 AM
unfortunately sir tony I'm not at your neighborhood. Im in mindanao. So I hope you could still provide me one.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on December 04, 2003, 06:53:32 AM
ok, sent you pm...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joelreg on December 04, 2003, 07:10:28 PM
sir tony, may i request for a diagram too? i am a diy enthusiast too and i have researched a bit about dual psu but i would be more confident in trying to create one with your diagram as it has already been proven effective...thanks
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on December 04, 2003, 07:46:20 PM
joelreg,

you have to get it from my house, bring a recordable cd, we'll burn a copy for you...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joelreg on December 04, 2003, 09:30:01 PM
okay, thanks sir tony...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on December 13, 2003, 10:57:00 AM
anybody interested in my two articles, i will give them away for free, but you have to come to the house ang bring a recordable cd so i can burn a copy for you....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Zero One on December 24, 2003, 01:34:59 AM
Sir toni have you look at the P4 Dynamo 400w PSU? In your own "opinion" is P4 Dynamo stable or shall realible when it comes to cost/ performance ratio? best wishes and happy holidays to you!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Zero One on December 24, 2003, 01:38:23 AM
shall I say realible when it comes to cost/ performance ratio?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on December 24, 2003, 12:29:36 PM
that is a generic psu...it can be modded....to make it more stable...i have so far seen a dynamo 350 watt psu, not much different than a 'pentium iv' psu that came bundled with the tornado casing...it that 400watt dynamo has bigger chopper transformer than the 350watt one, then we are in bussiness....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: AMD_MP on January 10, 2004, 07:42:28 PM
bro, i have LANLON 300watts PSU, gusto ko sana pagawang 475 or higit pa.. pwede mo bang gawin?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: epoy on January 10, 2004, 08:44:32 PM
instead of modding it why dont u buy a cheap 500 watt PSU for 1 thousand pesos
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: AMD_MP on January 10, 2004, 09:30:01 PM
maganda kasi lanlon eh.. dami nakasaksak pro ok pa rin..
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: torpedo1110 on January 10, 2004, 11:06:03 PM
sir tony, do you have documents on how to do cdrom psu's? i have a spare cdrom case here and i'm thinking of buying a 250watt AT power supply in a surplus shop. is it hard to do?



and another thing, can i connect an AT to an ATX such that when i turn on the main ATX psu, i also turn on the slave? thanks alot!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on January 12, 2004, 10:56:28 AM
AMD_MP ,

so far, i have not modded a lan-lon, owners have no need to, but it too can be modde,d i am also eager to find out out how much more juice can be squeezed out of this brute.....call me 6438957 if you have the time....modding costs around 400....



torpedo1110 ,

i have the articles in my computer, anybody willing to come to the house can get it, just bring a recordable cd....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: geode on January 12, 2004, 11:23:04 AM
joan,



pre pwede na ba kunin ung monitor na pinaayos ko?  kunin ko na sana this week.



also, i have a couple of ATX psu's that i'm still thinking what to do about.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JoE on January 13, 2004, 08:18:15 PM
What would you suggest sir? I have a lanlon 300w PSU thats working great! but i just got an ECS N2U400 mobo that's a powerhog. It's working fine now but i plan to add another HDD and some more fans to my PC.



Would you suggest to mod the 300w lanlon or invest in a higher wattage PSU? maliit lang talaga budget ko for PSU kaya im looking to have the lanlon modded nalang. Is it true that a modded (for example to 475w) wud perform the same as a branded 475w PSU? thanks in advance sir!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on January 15, 2004, 02:31:22 PM
if you have not bought a hec yet, better to mod you lanlon, will cost you 450, i too am eager to find out how much more can be swueezed out of the lanlons.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JoE on January 16, 2004, 07:13:35 AM
sir sent you PM sa TPC..thanks!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: draganta on January 30, 2004, 11:20:20 AM
Quote
better to mod you lanlon, will cost you 450, i too am eager to find out how much more can be swueezed out of the lanlons.....
 huh ngayon ko lang nabasa ito ah...



kaya ba ng lanlon ang barton 2500 sir tony???



mukhang ibabalik ko yung lanlon ko sayo for up-modding...



=)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on February 04, 2004, 12:54:50 PM
kiks,

there is onl;y one way to find out!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cade on February 17, 2004, 02:50:45 PM
Sir,



I have a question...is it possible to power up an Athlon 800/2x128mb PC133/10gb 5400rpm HDD/2 generic NICs and GF2MX (and maybe an occassional connection of a CD-ROM drive for installing OS and other stuff) with just a CD-ROM PSU (It will be a primary server and will be used for typing/browsing)?  



I am planning to create a low profile box for the server so that I can store it hidden from view.



This thread is very informative...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on February 17, 2004, 02:57:48 PM
yes, it may be possible....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: mcphil on March 08, 2004, 05:04:03 PM
i have a 2.54Ghz,2x512mb am, gfx5200,capture card, 2x80 gig harddrive, 1 cdrw, a modem, 5 case fan, a cathode light,



my psu came with my pc case... (300w i think)

im having reboot.... and plans to add firewire or dvdrw

any suggestion on psu? i know i lack power somehow

any information is well appreciated....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: blahz on March 10, 2004, 11:09:27 PM
generic atx cases ussualy comes with a generic psu. i doubt if your 300w has enough power to provide future devices. sure it'll work, but you'll run into power problems, like sudden reboot or a sudden damaged component in the motherboard.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: blahz on March 10, 2004, 11:13:46 PM
refer to this thread:



http://pinoypc.net/tehboard/viewthread.php?thread=22393&page=1 (http://pinoypc.net/tehboard/viewthread.php?thread=22393&page=1)



i would get a 350w psu, but i'd still purchase a 400w+ for more power.



you could run dual psu's to provide other devices. sir joan2 could help you.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: blahz on March 16, 2004, 09:08:49 PM
ito mga services ni sir tony.



http://tipidpc.com/items/view.php?id=68927 (http://tipidpc.com/items/view.php?id=68927)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: edelacru on March 28, 2004, 09:31:16 AM
Tanong lang po sir Tony.  Recently, my HEC 350W (VD-T) emits a high pitched buzzing sound when playing demanding 3D games.  The buzzing stops a while after letting it cool down and would sometimes continue to buzz even after I have turned the system off.  What is causing this? Does this mean my PSU is going bad or is it just a transient spike or dirty mains line?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on March 28, 2004, 02:14:11 PM
if your psu buzzes even if you shutdown your computer, chances are it is the 5v standby circuit that is generating the sound, and is not much of a concern, to confirm, pull out the plug from the wall, there should not be buzzing anymore...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: edelacru on March 30, 2004, 04:07:23 PM
The buzzing sound disappears when I pull the main plug.  But is the buzzing sound during heavy use a concern?  Thanks!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on March 31, 2004, 12:19:50 PM
depends on what happens to your system, if it stays stable despite the sound then the sound becomes a mere annoyance, you cam rma your psu if still covered..otherwise you may have to live with it, your psu trnasformers may need to be re-potted to reduce or eliminate the noise...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on April 02, 2004, 11:41:57 PM
tony, finally got to try out dual PSU as discussed with you long ago.

medyo na tambak na ito kse dami gawain sa trabaho hindi ko natutukan.



What I did was let the Enermax 350W power the mobo and components

The PSU you modded for me was used to power all fans (2 120mm; 1 92mm for the HSF; the vantec nbcooler; the vantec hdd cooler) then the IDE drives (DVD ROM; CD-RW; 2 80Gb HDD).



Tried this for two days.

Noticed that Windows took much longer to load. My desktop icons take more than 5mins to be fully realized.  Checking the event viewer I see plenty of "atapi device did not respond in the specified timeout period" error.

Also played Far Cry demo and it stutters in game.  Parang hindi sync yung power nung extra PSU sa requests ng PC Hardware lalo na sa IDE drives.



Binalik ko na ulit sa Enermax yung IDE drives and let the modded PSU power the fans alone.



Any ideas for that behavior?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: edelacru on April 04, 2004, 11:38:45 PM
Thanks for the nice work on my videocard.  The replaced capacitor is doing fine and I don't seem to be getting funny lock-ups anymore. Will test further though...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on April 05, 2004, 05:12:36 PM
thanks for the feedback, yould appreciate if you can also post feedback at tipidpc, thanks again....



@dulber,

how about the modded psu running the rig?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on April 05, 2004, 05:27:40 PM
tony,

did that before with the 8RDA+ rev.1.1.

registered 4.78 in the 5volt rail with less than 500Mhz OC above the

1800+ XP. The 350W Enermax does better but drops to the same level

after 700Mhz OC
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on April 05, 2004, 10:46:03 PM
4.78 is good unless you have stability issues...



i notice that enermax psu's have higher voltage droop than hec, my leadman however, has a no load voltage of 5.01volts and at full load it drops to 4.98...



in one enermax that i modded, the no load was 5.48 and full load at 4.8..
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on April 06, 2004, 06:45:35 AM
This is my first Enermax and the more I OC the more the 5V drops



The weird thing is the modded PSU when I had the IDE drives connected to it.

The modded PSU was switched on before the mobo.  I assume the IDE drives connected to the modded PSU are also powered after switching on the modded PSU.  When I switch on the mobo it boots, loads WinXP for more than 10mins (time for all 7 desktop icons to complete).



I checked event viewer to figure out what took WinXP that long to load and find plenty of "atapi ide drives did not load in specified period" error messages.  These are for all my atapi ide drives which are connected to the modded PSU.



I also have 2 120mm fans, 1 92mm, 1 vantec hdd cooler, 1 vantec iceberq connected to the same modded PSU.  It's as if the power isn't getting to the ide drives at the time the device asked for it.  The ATX power connector of the modded PSU was shorted (green and black).



There must be something I did that's wrong. OR something I didn't do at all. Do I need to short other atx pins aside from the power & ground?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on April 06, 2004, 02:59:50 PM
i remember, the second psu was an AT type, and a relay is closed to supply the 5 and 12 volts to the atapis and fans, likewise, the elan vital atx had a pot to increase the 5volts rail in case you need more voltage...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on July 07, 2004, 08:18:51 AM
I must be really unlucky or my flaky mobo reall needs a good whack!!!

I've upgraded my PSU to a HEC 525W Power Op series. When I plugged it in, my default OC of an 1800+ @ 2200Mhz took its toll and dropped the 5V rail to 4.780V.  Almost equalling my 350W Enermax' 5V drop of 4.730V.



Stock 1800+ on the HEC returns 4.8++V.



joan2,

can I measure the 5V rail of my PSU while the PC is running?

which points should I be poking my leads into?



I'm getting quite frustrated with this Epox 8RDA+ rev.2.2.

It reports 7-10C higher temps than any other revision 8RDA+

I can't get the 5V rail to at least hit 5V. It's only feeding the mobo, proc, two HDD and a DVD-RW. System temp is a relatively mild 32C
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on July 18, 2004, 05:51:06 PM
@dulber,

yes you can, poke your prods on the 20pin molex connector on the mobo, be carefull though....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dulber on July 18, 2004, 06:43:22 PM
ouch, that might kill it.

anyway, just experienced something scary earlier. a power surge or sag hit the house current after a lightning strike. the computer and all the fans died but the power led remained lit!



i was formatting a HDD with three partitions.



Since the Aegis XL-500 500W electronic AVR was always hot in use.

I decided to employ another 500W, Zebra ZVR-500TW. I used the Aegis for the PC alone. The monitor, a stereo speaker set & water pump are all connected to the Zebra.  



Power on and everything was back to normal. completed formattin the hdd too.  still dont know what happened earlier, though.



extra observation: before the extra AVR while the pump was plugged into the multi socket, my monitor picture was constantly wavy. now it's barely noticeable.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Juice111 on August 15, 2004, 11:28:45 PM
I had a scary moment with my Enermax PSU. I was checking the 4 pin molex for the 12v with a multimeter and then my rig suddenly shuts down and the Vapo sounds an alarm! For a brief moment I thought everything was shorted out I should accept it. But After a few minutes it powered up again.

I checked my extra psu and the same thing happened to it. It shuts down and I have to wait for a while before I can power it up.



So how do you check the PSU's voltage with a multimeter?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 16, 2004, 05:13:17 PM
psu's that followed the intel specs to the letter will shut down and out of harm's way...it is called overcurrent protection...



when poking multi meter probes on a live board, connect the black probe with alligator clips on the metal chassis, this way you have only one hand to look after instead of two...the red probe you can poke at the back of the headers, the 4pin or the 20pin...



as always, safety first!!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Juice111 on August 16, 2004, 06:25:58 PM
Thanks sir Tony :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: hack_1018 on August 17, 2004, 10:11:55 AM
sir bakit ayaw gumana ng board at processor ko? i have msi865pe neo2 platinum edition, spart7+ ng hsf at 2.4 na processor. nilagay ko pa lang yung processor at hsf, speaker at memory. pero pag open ko ng power iikot lang sandali yung fan ng processor then titigil na sa pag ikot. bakit po kaya? hindi kaya dahil sa psu?



i have 300w generic psu

+3.3v          14a

+5v             25a

+12v            12a

-5v               0.5a

-12v             0.5a

+5vsb           2.5a



pls help me naman. kkbili ko lang kahapon. do i have to return the parts?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 18, 2004, 05:46:37 PM
simpe lang yan, get yourself an enermax 350watt and youll find out...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ting on August 18, 2004, 05:56:22 PM
kung dati ok naman sa ganyang setup baka lumobo na din

mga capacitor ng board mo.. same symtoms

nung nasira ung board ko pag on ko sa power iikot lang then mamatay na



PSU ko is 300 watts enermax

nung pinalitan ko board ok na ulit
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: 1ceman on August 19, 2004, 04:42:50 PM
Sir pls comments on my PSU EPRAISER 300W



Current PC config:

ECS Nforce2 mobo

Leadtek FX5200 128MB w/ 128bit

Seagate 80GB 7200rpm 2mb cache

FDD

USB mouse

AthlonXP2000+ overclocked

2 x 512MB DDR400 Infineon

1 x cdrom

1 x dvd-rom-cdrw combo

4 x auxiliary fans

1 x matrix HSF





NOTE: Sometimes when im using my USB port my PC slows down
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: markrodel on August 26, 2004, 07:48:27 AM
sa dami po ng info na nabasa ko d2 gusto ko lng malaman. kung sakaling gagawa ako ng 2nd cdrom psu, pwedeng di na regulated pag auxillary fans lng pagagamitan ko, tama po ba ako. [planning to OC my rig]
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 26, 2004, 12:04:12 PM
@markrodel,

yes, you are corret, kung fans lang, or even peltiers, pwede na yung linear power supplies, this releives your  main psu....



otho, fans are not such big spenders, unless you want to install 2 dozens of them fans....



reason i came up with this thread is there are those who want to power up their other pheriperals, like cdroms and hds in which case the cdrom psu made sense then....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: joan2 on August 26, 2004, 12:07:21 PM
to all:



i would like to anounce here, that is am leaving for zahkalinsk in russia for an overseas assignment, up to 2007!!!



i would like to express my thanks to all and to this forum that gave me an outlet yo air my mind.....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: alikishi on August 26, 2004, 01:14:15 PM
your priceless services and knowledge will be remembered sir joan...
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: cartan on August 26, 2004, 01:18:53 PM
thanks for the knowledge (and mods) you shared with us sir tony.

we hope to still see you here in the boards when you're there in faraway Russia already.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: geode on August 26, 2004, 01:24:14 PM
mamimiss ka namin sir joan2 (tony)!!!!  :( huhuhuhuhuhuhu



tama si alikishi ... the knowledge you imparted in this thread will always be treasured.



nawa'y makabisita ka uli dito samin when you get to russia.  have a safe trip!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: markrodel on August 26, 2004, 05:49:34 PM
tony, maraming salamat! hope to hear MORE from ya
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: clown on September 30, 2004, 12:56:57 AM
(stock voltages)

Proc: 2500+ @ 3200+  200x11

Cpu Fan: Thermaltake Bulkan 11

Mobo: Epox 8K9AI(before)         Epox 8RDA3i(current)

Mem: 1x256mb / 1x512mb  DDR333 PQI = 768mb

Vcard: ATI Radeon 9800pro

Optical: Plextor PX-708A DVD Writer  /  LiteOn CDRW-DVD Combo

Drives: 1x20gb Seagate 5400rpm  /  1x40gb Western D.5400rpm

Fans: 3x80mm 1x120mm 1x X-blower



PSU: Thermaltake 480w Butterfly Purepower    - suspek





Chapter 1: Ang suliranin.





Last June 2004 ko lang nakuha itong psu padala mula sa Amerika.  Stable naman siya(Overclocked settings) for about 3 weeks of normal use when weird things began to occur.  Merong mga pagkakataon na pag press ko yung power button, tatakbo yung pc pero bigla na lang siya mamamatay.  Mga less than one second naka on then biglang off.  Ni reseat ko lahat ng peripherals, nagkabit ng wire for ground, ni reset ang bios, then test ulit kung gagana na.  Still, pag press ko ng on button, tatakbo siya then biglang mag o off.



Medyo nagduda na ako at sinalpak ko ang generic 300w psu na kasama dati sa tornado case ko.  Pinindot ang power button at gumana naman siya.  Normal naman lahat at walang instability issues. Binalik ko siya sa default clocks then switch ulit dun sa ttake psu.  Binuksan ulit ang pc ngunit bumalik na naman ang problema…



Confident pa rin ako dahil baka may issues lang sa peripherals ko kaya nag isolate ako isa isa. Still, ganon pa rin yung problema…  Isip, isip, isip…  Ginamit ko na ang brute force method(explained later) dahil desperado akong mapagana yung psu.





Brute Force Method (explained)



Nag experiment ako dun sa mga molex ng psu. Pinagpalit palit at isa isa inaysolate hanggang sa makarating ako dun sa 20wire power rail na nag ffeed ng power sa board.  Habang naka on yung voltage regulator, tinanggal ko yung 20wire power rail sa mobo at sinalpak ito muli(halfway). Nagulat ako at tumakbo yung computer(without pressing the power button). Umikot ang fans, umilaw ang leds, etc. Pero this time, naka red lang yung hdd led at parang walang activity yung pc kundi on lang siya.  Tinulak ko yung 20wire power rail para kumabit ng todo at namatay yung pc. Pinindot ko yung power button at voila, no probs at naka boot ako hanggang sa desktop.







Chapter 2: WTF?





Ginamit ko siya ng ilang oras para ma test for stability. Nag overclock ulit then check for stability. Tumakbo siya ng matino for about 1 week at sa hindi inaasahang pagkakataon, bumalik ang dating problema. Pag pinipindot ko yung power button, natakbo siya for about one second then mamamatay na lang bigla. Naalala ko yung Brute Force Method at ginawa ko ulit ito. Tinanggal ang power rail na nagffeed sa mobo at sinalpak ito muli(halfway) habang naka on ang voltage regulator. Voila! Tumakbo siya ngunit walang activity. Binaon ko yung power rail at namatay yung pc. Pinindot ko yung power button at tumakbo na siya ng normal at nakabalik sa desktop.





Epox 8K9Ai lang ang mobo ko noon. Nagduda ako dun sa motherboard ko kasi baka yung power rail port ang may problema. Since may plano naman talaga ako magpalit para maging nforce2 na ako, bumili ako ng epox 8rda3i.



Kinalas ko ang lumang mobo at kinabit ang bagong 8rda3i.  Akala ko’y dito na matatapos ang nakakaasar na problema ng pc. At sa hindi inaasahang pagkakataon, pag pindot ko ng power button, nandun pa rin ang problema--Mag oon siya ng mga 1sec then mamamatay na lang bigla. Ginawa ko ulit ang Brute Force Method at gumana naman siya ng normal muli.





Chapter 3: Pagkabigo





Hindi naman  ako nawalan ng pag-asa at masaya pa rin ako hanggang ngayon sa psu na mejo may toyo. Hanggat napapatakbo ko siya ay masaya pa rin ako kahit may mga pagkakataon na bumabalik ang problema dahil May Brute Force Method naman ako hehehe.



Walang specific date at totally random pag nangyayari yung sumpong ng pc na ito hanggang ngayon. Dumating ako sa punto na hindi na gumagana ang Brute Force Method. Hindi ko na siya mapatakbo ng normal at lagi na lang sya namamatay pag bubuksan ko. Stock psu na lang gamit ko ngayon. Mejo mahina at hindi na stable ang pc di tulad nung sa dating psu.



Ilang buwan ko rin ito pinag eksperimentuhan at tiniis para hindi I post sa ppc. Ngayong dumating na ako sa sukdulan, panahon na siguro para maikwento ang aking suliranin…





Chapter 4: TULONG!



Mga peepol at ekspert, na experience nyo na ba ito ?

May remedy pa ba ?

Sayang naman psu ko :(



Chapter 5: Pasensya na



Pasensya sa post kong ito. Sobrang desperado talaga at bwisit na bwisit na aku sa psu na ito. Salamat :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jezbum on October 04, 2004, 02:13:13 PM
master tony,



maari po bang mag post kayo dito ng schematics and somewhat detailed instructions fot modifying/reinforcing the power supplies that come with the cases today like tornado, epraizer etc.



thanks po and good luck
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: kaluuuuuun on November 29, 2004, 01:55:30 AM
mga techies,



pano ba isswitch-on ung psu ng bare lang,, ung hindi nakakabit sa motherboard? can anyone help me..? im planning to to use 2 psu. the second is 230watts psu from my old P3 to my fans and lightings.. how? please???
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: durge on November 29, 2004, 02:11:48 AM
@kaluuuuuun



 this might help

http://www.virtual-hideout.net/guides/atx_psu_mods/index.shtml (http://www.virtual-hideout.net/guides/atx_psu_mods/index.shtml)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dragster_180 on January 02, 2005, 03:09:08 AM
I have a generic 350Watts psu, i use it to power my Mobo pent4 2.8, 512ddr, dvd cdrw combo, cdrw, 80g hd with hd cooler, gforce5600U, and 9 fans! 11 including nb chipset fan and coolermaster cpu fan. Ok naman psu never encounterd problems. naka chempo lang ako siguro ng ok na generic, knock on wood! But im going to buy an enermax 475W! im upgrading my rig to a prescott or canterwood, a 915 or maybe 925 chips, i cant use my generic 350w coz it has only a 20pin power connector. aka atx v1.3
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: bistro on January 19, 2005, 06:11:34 PM
saan po kukuha ng power yung 2nd psu? can you piggyback it to the psu that powers the mobo?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: scarlet_doom on February 17, 2005, 05:44:04 PM
nag seservice pa ba si tony for tonyfied psu? :)
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: spoliarium on February 21, 2005, 11:11:52 AM
Quote
nag seservice pa ba si tony for tonyfied psu?

Nasa Russia yata si Tony ngayon.

Just saw this discussion on ATX PSUs with 20 or 24 pin cables when using a MSI K8 Neo4:

Quote
The 24 pin connector is called EPS12V. This is a non-ATX but ATX-derived spec created by the Server System Infrastructure (SSI) group that has been until now reserved for serve r (multiprocessor) boards. It includes a 24pin primary connector, that has the same layout as a 20 pin connector, with four additional lines. It also ups the auxiliary +12V connector from 4 to 8 pins.  Again, the existing 4 pins are identical...it is just expanded. This is of course to accommodate the higher power consumption of multiple processors.

With modern processors dissipating 120 or more watts, however, even single processor boards are beginning to require more power. That is why many modern boards, especially with the anticipation of dual-core chips, are beginning to accommodate the spec. Adapters exist to convert the connectors either way, and many of the latest power supplies in fact come with a 24pin connector attached, and an adapter to convert to ATX standard 20 pin.

Quote
The basic ATX spec is 20 with an optional 4 pin +12v, while the
SSI spec is 24 pins with an optional 8 pin +12V.

It is entirely possible that the motherboard would work with a regular ATX
power supply. You would have to check with the motherboard manual to see if that is the case. The connectors themselves are electrically and physically compatibile--the SSI spec just defines additional pins. If they are absolutely required or not would be dependent upon the manufacturer; MSI states that you can use either a 20pin or 24pin with the Neo4, according to the manual. Should you choose to get an SSI spec power supply, yes, the EPS12V spec is what you are looking for. Antec makes a True550EPS12V if you're interested.

To further complicate matters, after looking at the Neo4, it uses a 24pin
primary plug and the 4 pin ATX +12V plug. Most EPS12V supplies (including the Antec above) come with the 24pin main, and both the 4pin and 8pin +12V auxillary connectors.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on March 01, 2005, 12:51:57 AM
mga veterans and mga ser! desperado din po ako! namumulubi ako sa pag gastos sa rig ko. ayoko ito masira! meron akong Dynamo 450w. hindi ko alam kung kaya nito ang specs ko. at balita ko nakakasira ng rig ang mga cheapy na psu!

axp 3200+,msi k7n2 delta-L, 3 x 256ddr pc2100, radeon 9550 ee, 20+10gb hdd, tt volcano 12, cmi soundcard, dvd rom, floppy, 1pc 92mm 6000rpm fan(intake), 1 80mm(intake) 3000rpm fan, 3pcs 80mm 3000rpm fans(exhaust).

ano po sa tingin nyo? at ito po rin ba ang dahilan kung bakit ang takbo ng proc ko eh 2.191ghz lang instead na 2.200+? kailangan ko po ang mga tulong nyo!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: ting on March 01, 2005, 01:04:41 AM
hindi ako sure sa mga P4 dynamo pero may mga nakikita kong users nun dito na naka overclock pa ang PC pero ok naman.

para sa akin. maganda mag invest ka sa mga mas kilalang PSU makers.

Quote
ano po sa tingin nyo? at ito po rin ba ang dahilan kung bakit ang takbo ng proc ko eh 2.191ghz lang instead na 2.200+? kailangan ko po ang mga tulong nyo!

tignan mo sa bios yung FSB Spectrum seto mo sa 0 or disable. kasi baka naka 1%

pareho tayo ng Mobo BTW
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on March 01, 2005, 03:35:03 AM
salamat po!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on March 01, 2005, 03:35:52 AM
so pwede na sa specs ko ang branded na 350w?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on March 03, 2005, 10:07:34 PM
and paano mo malalaman na stable ang isang psu?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jael on March 03, 2005, 11:25:34 PM
one way is using a program, like everest, to know your current voltage on the 3.3V, 5V and 12V rails.

the acceptable deviation is +/- 5%. for example, the 12V rail, the values you should be reading should be between 11.4V to 12.6V. the closer the reading is to 12V, the better.

better PSUs have good feedback circuits and parts; better overall construction and parts for the sake of discussion; to maintain the voltage at the right levels.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on March 03, 2005, 11:50:17 PM
thanks man! freeware ba itong everest?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on March 08, 2005, 02:22:12 AM
andito na ba si Sir Tony!!??  
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: tyrano on April 05, 2005, 01:56:18 PM
hehe, i have 4 fans and now its anoying na. an extra PSU will build more heat inside my casing so i never thought of getting a 2nd PSU, just upgraded my PSU to 450wats nalang  
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on April 12, 2005, 02:21:32 AM
my 12v reading is at 11.46 lang. ok lang ba ito?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dom_08 on April 15, 2005, 10:23:45 AM
@johnp

refer to jael's post

Quote
the acceptable deviation is +/- 5%. for example, the 12V rail, the values you should be reading should be between 11.4V to 12.6V. the closer the reading is to 12V, the better.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jonggay on April 18, 2005, 08:59:15 PM
well.. i already bought a 465w enermax. ganda ng performace! 11.82 ang 12v!!
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: localhost on April 18, 2005, 10:05:03 PM
Quote
mga techies,<br />
<br />
pano ba isswitch-on ung psu ng bare lang,, ung hindi nakakabit sa motherboard? can anyone help me..? im planning to to use 2 psu. the second is 230watts psu from my old P3 to my fans and lightings.. how? please???
Short the Green and any black (common) wire from the 20-pin ATX connector.. normally pin 3 and 4.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dom_08 on May 02, 2005, 10:01:09 AM
my 475w Hec could go 12.00 12v rail... worse is around 11.8x and usually while gaming @11.9x.. ^_^ forgot the exact values... ^_^
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: thetrueone on August 03, 2005, 02:48:48 PM
diba built-in yan sa isang motherboard na di ko matandaan yung pangalan....
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dom_08 on August 25, 2005, 09:45:53 PM
@thetrueone

ano po tinutukoy niyo?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: charles_2low2drag on November 06, 2005, 05:00:06 AM
OT:
I've read the first page(s) of this thread again..  :oops:
awang awa ako kay scholes18...
isa siya sa mga newbie sa PPC dati na naharas ng todo.. :-D  
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: blahz on November 06, 2005, 12:29:02 PM
ot:

si sir tony active sa tipidpc. just in case na kaylangan nyo xa... hehehe :evil:
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: KillerMCB on January 10, 2006, 08:20:12 AM
para saan po yung mga +5v, +12v, -5v, -12v readings sa PSU?
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: blahz on January 10, 2006, 06:28:29 PM
here's a quote from sir tony from tpc.

Quote
Optical devices ======> 5volts(logic) and 12volts(motors)
Hardives ===========> 3.3v(sata), 5volts(logic) and 12volts(motors)
Mobo =============> 3.3, 5, +12 and -12volts
AGP ==============> 3.3, 5 and 12volts
floppy ============> 5 and 12 volts
Processors, Intel mobo=> 12volts
Processors, AMD mobo=> 5 and 12volts.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: jayzmitz11 on April 28, 2006, 03:43:26 PM
mga bro i have a problem with my task psu 450w. yung 12v railing niya hindi nag12v sakto 10.9v then nag10.5v namamatay pc ko . then before nasa 11.3v siya

ang tanong ko kaya niya ba gawin 12v sakto tong psu ko  
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: headlessspider on May 13, 2006, 07:02:39 PM
Quote
mga bro i have a problem with my task psu 450w. yung 12v railing niya hindi nag12v sakto 10.9v then nag10.5v namamatay pc ko . then before nasa 11.3v siya

ang tanong ko kaya niya ba gawin 12v sakto tong psu ko
try reseating your connectors. check your mobo connector. if there's black residue in a couple of slots, there may be a problem with the contacts.

i cleaned my connectors and voltages went up a bit but i am planning to replace my task psu (450w) to another brand when i get enough money. maybe antec or hec.
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: rlr0918 on June 03, 2006, 12:06:40 PM
if your not very sure on how many wattage you need to use for your rig click on this http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/ (http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/)

 Big help.. :D
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: rlr0918 on June 03, 2006, 12:10:29 PM
to headlessspider: i suggest go for Enermax it's worth buying although its a little bit expensive compare to HEC and Antec..

i know complink shop and Acenet offer a good price for Enermax...  
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: blahz on June 04, 2006, 11:37:23 PM
basta tignan mo yung +12v +5v +3v

dapat minimum nyan nang 12+v is 20amps for amd/intel boards. kaso ibang usapan na pag SLI.

it also depends if you're planning to add alot of case fans and devices.
 
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: X3ME15 on June 05, 2006, 12:52:41 AM
Quote
GeForce 7800 GTX (G70) Specs Updated:
Single card requires min. 400W PSU with 12V rating of 26A
SLI configuration requires min. 500W PSU with 12V rating of 34A

Quote
Minimum of +12V@26A for Single Video Card Systems & +12V@34A for Dual Video Card (SLI) Systems.

DFI Street Recommended PSUs and their Ratings (http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10854&highlight=recommended+psu)

although i recommend this guide for all who are planning to run a S939 setup even though you're not running a DFI mobo.. a must read if you're into overclocking your A64/S64 setups..
Title: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: binarywurm on June 28, 2006, 12:16:37 PM
mga sir pano ba inconvert ung 24 pin na atx connector to 20 pin. or san kaya makakabili ng adapter? salamt po
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: duh.dong on August 20, 2006, 10:09:45 PM
hi! got a question .. can the Dynamo 500w PSU handle overclocking? i'm planning to OC my proc kasi .. :)
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: secky74 on August 23, 2006, 01:38:15 PM
How much does it cost to convert a dual psu? Electricity consumption? What do you need to convert? Does anyone do it? Thanks ^_^
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dom_08 on September 12, 2006, 09:44:15 PM
Quote
hi! got a question .. can the Dynamo 500w PSU handle overclocking? i'm planning to OC my proc kasi ..

hi duh.dong,

the Dynamo brand is not unpopular in terms of stability, even on stock speeds.  I suggest that get a good psu, at least a Hec or Task... better if Antec or Enermax... :D

secky, did you read the earlier posts already?

consumption will mainly depend on the components used in the set-up... :D
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Demo™ on January 15, 2007, 02:00:26 PM
I've asked several "Guru's" at Futuremark,[H]ardOCP and beyond 3d, all of them say its perfectly safe to run DUAL psu on any system provided that you are able to turn woth PSU's on when you press the power switch...
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: Joel r on March 04, 2007, 11:28:08 PM
whats wrong with my power supply, the 3.3v exceeds the limit to 4.5 volts? how can i repare this problem?
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: digital_ranma on January 06, 2008, 10:34:52 PM
sir tony is still in russia when i PM'ed him. anyone knows another repair shop where i can have my Task 450W PSU repaired? Thanks! :-)
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: spoliarium on March 16, 2008, 08:02:47 AM
Try profpatpending he repairs PSUs also.
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JojoD on April 11, 2008, 12:18:04 PM
what's up na with dual psu mods? anybody done it lately?

Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JojoD on April 22, 2008, 11:21:55 PM
my specimen is an old 350W psu

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/01.jpg)

some parts were obviously not included to save manufacturer production costs...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/02.jpg)

had to put in some mods...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/03.jpg)

remove unwanted wires...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/04.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/05.jpg)

upgrade Schottky diodes...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/06.jpg)

this is my slave switch, I use a small transistor instead of a relay to activate my 2nd psu. it's fast and has no moving parts...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/07.jpg)

using an old cdrom case for easy installation to a 5.25" drive bay...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/08.jpg)

bend metal strips for cooling fan...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/09.jpg)

almost finished!

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/10.jpg)

 :mellow:

Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: JojoD on April 23, 2008, 08:15:53 PM
installation...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/11.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/12.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/13.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/jojod818/PC%20PSU/14.jpg)


 :mellow:

Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: dom_08 on April 27, 2008, 04:46:00 PM
galing jojoD
:D:D
Title: Re: tony's dual power supply f.a.q's
Post by: wheelee on November 04, 2011, 05:00:22 PM
Finally!
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2011/07/27/how_to_use_three_psus_in_one_system/ (http://www.hardocp.com/news/2011/07/27/how_to_use_three_psus_in_one_system/)

sa kakatanong ko dito
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?273623-Best-way-to-connect-2X-PSU-s (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?273623-Best-way-to-connect-2X-PSU-s)